Sroka Foil Beginner- Light winds & Light Kites. Maui Cloud ?

[irvinside]

Hi,

I am beginning Foil on a Sroka, I have been to Alameda 3 times already [2H to get there] but not enough winds these days. Could only foil once [very first session]. My biggest issue being my 12m Rebel 2012 being too heavy [over-engineered ?] requiring at least 12 knots to stay stable in the air. So it often dropped while learning [whenever ~8knots] and could not relaunch properly from water [while other 12m kites still could].

So my options these days would be 3rd [closer] but with Off-shore winds, really not comfortable doing this. Any advice ?

Also any good kite to recommend me, with a very good low end && light kite that requires very few wind to stay in the air : I was told the last Bandit are very light , also the Nobile. I had the Maui cloud in hands looks awesome too for Foil Boarding.

Thanks,
Greg

[jaxonholer]

BRM cloud has to be a lot lighter than those kites you mentioned, just a lot less material to weigh the kite down. Plus the cloud has amazing depower with just a few inches of throw, so if you extend your arms, you dump all power. It's both very light in the air and hugely powerful on the low end.

This has its advantages and disadvantages, it will take some getting used to. It's hyper sensitive to where you are in the trim, so switching from this kite to a strutted kite requires entirely different streering and bar input. I find it annoying to go back to strutted kites since I'm used to the cloud. My old kites liked to be fully sheeted out (arms extended) cloud is exactly opposite. I would say this feature is more of a personal preference to not deal with completely different handling from one brand to another. Personallly I love the tight hyper responsive handling of the cloud, so I'm all in, full quiver.

I suppose you could go cloud for only foiling, this could make some sense. I would not really recommend switching kite brands from one session to another as I already discussed, but if you want a dedicated foil kite, the cloud is your kite because it's so responsive and you can dump wind so easily. When I'm up and foiling, I need so little kite. The power dump and hyper responsiveness is why this is a great foil kite. I thought my 7 would be my go to kite, but I was always overpowered foiling. 5 is my go to.

You might want to not go cloud since you're bringing another learning aspect to your situation. Learning to foil will take 100% focus, this might not be the time to incorporate any other variables. I could understand that, but I humble disagree. I have a Sroka as well, very happy with it.

[shred_da_gorge]

North makes a kite called the Dyno specifically for light wind and racing - I remember Ken Winner tried to test it a bigger size at Alameda shortly after the Nationals at Crissy one year and ironically there was too much wind. I ride Rebels and Fuses and they're definitely heavier kites, and built that way for durability. (I'm assuming you have a 5-line bar for the Rebel, which is why I point out the Dyno; I have no experience with it nor commercial affiliation with North).

In Hood River there have been a lot of foilers out this year, so maybe posting this on nwkite might get you some insight too. Many of the guys I see foiling are using three-strut kites (wish I could help you more but I don't foil). Good luck!

[jjm]

I haven't flown BRM Clouds but follow their blog. If you happen to be interested in >1 of their kites they're offering discounts when buying a quiver through 8/15. Details http://boardridingmaui.com/cloudwritings-blog.html

Do you really want to kite in sub-10 knots frequently or is this just something you're encountering in your new-to-foiling phase? Maybe if you live near Alameda or somewhere with consistent but low winds it is worth re-evaluating your equipment. A lighter (3-strut, 0-strut, foil kite) will probably get you some more stability but you'll still be dealing with lulls that drop kite out of the sky and in the realm of unlikely relaunches.

I don't kite at 3rd very often but I wouldn't consider it an off-shore spot. Have the winds have been canting a bit off shore this season?

Maybe Sherman on a lighter wind day with an appropriately sized kite (e.g. your Bandits or your Rebel on a really light day). Just don't take 15 minutes to get off the beach!

[dwaynej]

The BRMs are awesome kites but light wind kite flying is a new skill as well. Learning both foil board and light wind kite flying at the same time will be tough.

10kts and lower from a skills perspective is really pushing it as dropping the kite will guarantee it will not be relaunchable. You have to nail your water starts and be up foiling immediately... Need to loop the kite to get the power to get up and you need the skill to ride the board in any direction the kite pulls you as well as know how to edge it back up wind and start foiling.

The great news is once you have mastered these skills, a 9M-12M kite on long lines (25M-27M) will be all you will need. My quiver went from 7M/9M/12M/14M/17M to 7M/9M/12M LEI's and 9M/12M Foil Kites.

For me, the 12M Foil (Ozone Chrono/Flysurfer Sonic FR) is what I use on very light days at or below 12kts. I like to use the 9M foil kite for higher winds.

The LEI's (7/9/12) is what I use when its punchy/very gusty or when I go far offshore. I can ride the 9M down to 12kts. Today I am using 5 Strut Core XR4's. Technically the 12M should be a 3 Strut GTS4 to be a little lighter but given my 9M XR4 experience, I don't think it really matters for me.

A tip for you - Make sure you are adjusting trim and depowering your kite in very light conditions. When its really light, its way too easy to back stall and drop a kite into the water. Bar out and the kite will not climb up the window... Depower the kite by pulling on your trim. May seem counter intuitive but when its really light, my kites are fully depowered/trim on.

Again, sub 12kts is way out there in terms of skill. This evening in 12kts, only four people were on the water when normally there are 20+. The four individuals were foil board with 10M foil kite, foil board with 12M foil kite, foil board with a 17M strutless LEI kite, and a twintip (Litewave Wing Carbon 161) with 17M three strut LEI kite.

- Dwayne

[Sonny]

3rd is great as long as it's not southwest, I can generally have fun on a foil even on a southwest wind but I would not recommend it if you are just learning. Sherman is even better place to foil. I'M gnerally at 3rd AVE during the weekdays and Sherman on weekends, come talk to me. I will probably ride 3rd this weekend.

[Xor]

+1 on clouds.
I'm not foiling, but switched to them because of there reactive fast feeling and big depower in short throw.
For foiling you would also appreciate its drifting when going towards the kite.
They are awesome in light wind, but I would not recommend to get light wind skills with BRM bar, as it has no depower strap it is guaranteed that you will stall it in the beginning, but with any 4 line equal length bar (my preference now is simple below the bar depower with huge throw that I use to teach my wife).

Been at Alameda 3 times this week and when wind dropped below 10kts and wife started to backstall it (measured as 8-11kts on handheld sensor at beach same time), I relaunched it and was able to barely keep ground (and loosing it on transitions) on women 128x39 twin tip and 12m cloud.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[irvinside]

When I'm up and foiling, I need so little kite. The power dump and hyper responsiveness is why this is a great foil kite. I thought my 7 would be my go to kite, but I was always overpowered foiling. 5 is my go to.

Thanks for your detailed feedback Jaxonholer !
Much appreciated really.

Cloud seem very nice kite. But I must admit I did not expected them to be that exclusive though. Interesting. So what Cloud quiver would you recommend to some foil beginner like me in the Bay ? Main spots : [3rd, Coyote, Sherman] I weight 180pounds. I usually [mostly] Ride 12m [just like being overpowered for jumps], and occasionally 9m. I am so surprised by Cloud sizes like 5m or 7m , (or even the very last 4m cloud !) Wow. I must ask: What's your weight ?

Thanks !
Greg

[irvinside]

North makes a kite called the Dyno specifically for light wind and racing - I remember Ken Winner tried to test it a bigger size at Alameda shortly after the Nationals at Crissy one year and ironically there was too much wind.

In Hood River there have been a lot of foilers out this year, so maybe posting this on nwkite might get you some insight too. Many of the guys I see foiling are using three-strut kites (wish I could help you more but I don't foil). Good luck!

Thanks for the feedback!

I was proposed one actually, but seems like Dyno are more of an exclusive kite in terms of practice [light wind more than foil focused ?], while Bandit / Nobile / Cloud seem more versatile. But Dyno do use the 5th line indeed, so a good 5th elements bar investment protection. Indeed you are right. Will think about it.

Cheers,
Greg

[irvinside]

Do you really want to kite in sub-10 knots frequently or is this just something you're encountering in your new-to-foiling phase? Maybe if you live near Alameda or somewhere with consistent but low winds it is worth re-evaluating your equipment. A lighter (3-strut, 0-strut, foil kite) will probably get you some more stability but you'll still be dealing with lulls that drop kite out of the sky and in the realm of unlikely relaunches.

I don't kite at 3rd very often but I wouldn't consider it an off-shore spot. Have the winds have been canting a bit off shore this season?

Maybe Sherman on a lighter wind day with an appropriately sized kite (e.g. your Bandits or your Rebel on a really light day). Just don't take 15 minutes to get off the beach!

Hi JJM,

sub 10knots happen so often in the Lulls lately with this combination of NW + SW winds in the bay. It is such a shame when these winds combine and cancel each other around Coyote or 3rd . Has been like this for a while yet thanks to this huge Eddy in between Los Angeles and SF. Hopfully there is wadell, crissy, and Sherman..

But my Main Spots are 3rd / Coyote, and I Plan to kite as late as possible in this season and as early as possible in the next. So sub 10knots indeed
Sherman to begin foil... hmm not convinced yet. Most likely I might ending up in the river with the rocks to climb [with the Foil] and the road to land the kite. I think I might Keep it for twin-tip/surf yet ,

Cheers,
Greg