What size kite for Alameda?

[Guest]

Sorry but I got a newbie question. What is the difference between Flysurfers, tubes, and foils? Im just tryin to learn the lingo, thanks guys

[Guest]

flysurfer is a germany based manufacturer that makes foils, so they are in essense talking about foil kites, but there are many types of foil kites.

Mainly there are the kind of flat "flexifoil blade" shape foils, the kind you see with all the bridles, Flysurfer makes these types of kites, with a minor difference in that instead of being completely flat, they have a tiny bit of arc in them. You probably picture a foil as being efficient because it has a very high area exposed to the wind, in comparison with an inflatable kite(tube), where only the middle of the kite is exposed to the wind.

A flysurfer is pretty flat, but has some C shape to it., I really like flysurfers because their safety system is unbelievably good, and they totally put to rest all common notions of foils being water bags, i once saw a flysurfer rep in a video, take a completely uninflated flysurfer out in the middle of the water, lay it out on top of the water, unwind the lines, and then launch it cleanly, amazing. Not to mention you can relaunch them in any way possible, backwards, etc etc.

There are also the Peterlynn type foils, they have no bridles, and are C-shape, very much like an inflatable kite. Pretty much the benefits of a foil, but without a bridle, and a 4-line standard system.

Tubes are just shorthand for your standard Inflatable kite.


The performance differences are very controversial, but from my first hand unbiased experienced it goes like this:

Foils: Pros: awesome power range, very very good jumping ability(super floaty and super high). Flysurfer has an awesome relaunch/safety system, peterlynn is good but i'd take any standard tube kite to relaunch over a plynn. Oh and foils are VERY stable, you can luff one or mess up in any way possible and they obey every command, you can let go of your bar and they stay parked(plynn). You also dont have to pump anything up!
Foils Cons: turn slow =(, maybe its much better now, but its pretty universally known that size per size, a foil cannot turn as fast as a tube probably due to rigidity. My knowledge on this one may be outdated but this is the one selling point for me, i love turning speed, and sometimse even find my tubes slow. Oh again i forgot, Plynns dont really have the bottom end that tubes do, Flysurfers have amazing bottom end.

I love knowing that when im on a tube, if worst comes to worst when i break i line in the middle of the ggbridge i can atleast float on my kite like a life preserver. I mostly went with tubes because
1) i feel safer onthem.
2) i crash my kites a lot, so i wanted something that could relaunch reliably(and i really feel more comfortable relaunching a tube).
3) i like the great bottom end, and the fast turning speed.

[elli]

Hi Live2Kite, if I knew you sell flysurfers I would give you a call, but how should I know? Not mentioned anywhere.

Review of Extacy

I don't know whats up with the names the give their kites, the next model is 'Speed'. (Still better name than 'weed' :mrgreen: )

The Extacy (nick named XTC) supposedly has LEI like behaviour, fast turning, and similar flying technique. The transition that you talk about from LEI to foil is something that they are aware of, so they designed the XTC to give similar feel to LEI. You still get the benefits of a flysurfer, like the wide wind range, amazing relaunch, safety and price (well, this is not really a benefit). XTC is also supposed to have more power to SQ Meter than previous flysurfers. It also has more rigid structure and less bridle. There are many links inside the wing in any direction possible, you can see it if you look through the air scoops. This stuff looks so high tech that you have to have one if you are a technology freak.

Out of the weird arc shape of tubes, another reason that foils generate more power per SQ M is that they have real airfoil, so the wing is efficient. Tubes have a tube in the front, which creates drag, and single skin, which is not an efficient airfoil. On the down side, foils have a bridle that creates drag.

Flysurfers go even further by having dashes (they call it jet flaps) which create even more lift. Next time you fly on an airliner, take a look at the wing before take off. You will see that the back part of the wing goes out and down, and there is an air pass between the main wing and the dash. This is what you have on a flysurfer wing.

They build paragliders and test in wind tunnels, hence the performance and price.

Those pictures are all XTC, the Psycho 2 is even a better jumper from fly surfer (scary thought).
Movie: http://www.foilzone.com/video/bigjumpxtc.zip

[Live2KITE]

Elli / Knyfe,
No worries about the getting in touch with us for the Flysurfers.
At least now you know for the future :-)
BTW, one of our testers is selling his Pshycho2 13m if anyone is interested.
Evan

[Guest]

flysurfer is a germany based manufacturer that makes foils, so they are in essense talking about foil kites, but there are many types of foil kites.

Mainly there are the kind of flat "flexifoil blade" shape foils, the kind you see with all the bridles, Flysurfer makes these types of kites, with a minor difference in that instead of being completely flat, they have a tiny bit of arc in them. You probably picture a foil as being efficient because it has a very high area exposed to the wind, in comparison with an inflatable kite(tube), where only the middle of the kite is exposed to the wind.

A flysurfer is pretty flat, but has some C shape to it., I really like flysurfers because their safety system is unbelievably good, and they totally put to rest all common notions of foils being water bags, i once saw a flysurfer rep in a video, take a completely uninflated flysurfer out in the middle of the water, lay it out on top of the water, unwind the lines, and then launch it cleanly, amazing. Not to mention you can relaunch them in any way possible, backwards, etc etc.

There are also the Peterlynn type foils, they have no bridles, and are C-shape, very much like an inflatable kite. Pretty much the benefits of a foil, but without a bridle, and a 4-line standard system.

Tubes are just shorthand for your standard Inflatable kite.


The performance differences are very controversial, but from my first hand unbiased experienced it goes like this:

Foils: Pros: awesome power range, very very good jumping ability(super floaty and super high). Flysurfer has an awesome relaunch/safety system, peterlynn is good but i'd take any standard tube kite to relaunch over a plynn. Oh and foils are VERY stable, you can luff one or mess up in any way possible and they obey every command, you can let go of your bar and they stay parked(plynn). You also dont have to pump anything up!
Foils Cons: turn slow =(, maybe its much better now, but its pretty universally known that size per size, a foil cannot turn as fast as a tube probably due to rigidity. My knowledge on this one may be outdated but this is the one selling point for me, i love turning speed, and sometimse even find my tubes slow. Oh again i forgot, Plynns dont really have the bottom end that tubes do, Flysurfers have amazing bottom end.

I love knowing that when im on a tube, if worst comes to worst when i break i line in the middle of the ggbridge i can atleast float on my kite like a life preserver. I mostly went with tubes because
1) i feel safer onthem.
2) i crash my kites a lot, so i wanted something that could relaunch reliably(and i really feel more comfortable relaunching a tube).
3) i like the great bottom end, and the fast turning speed.

Great information, thanks

[RobsterCraw]

It seems that a 12m is the best for alemeda but what actual wind speeds whould you use a 12 in if you're kinda new. I would like to know some actual numbers in order to stay a little safer.

[OliverG]

It seems that a 12m is the best for alemeda but what actual wind speeds whould you use a 12 in if you're kinda new. I would like to know some actual numbers in order to stay a little safer.

Hmm, Alameda is a tough call. Spring is usually very good at Alameda and kites andwhere between 8m and 14m are the norm. Summer can be very light and you will have a very difficult time doing anything on a 12m kite, as 14m-18m tends to be the norm during much of the summer and fall. It's reasonable to have a three kite quiver in skipped sizing, i.e. 8m, 12m, 16m or 10m, 14m and 16 or 18m.

There's not much worse than being at the beach and not being able to go out because you don't have the proper sized kite.

[Guest]

There's not much worse than being at the beach and not being able to go out because you don't have the proper sized kite.

Thats why they put the kite store 100m from the beach :) :)

[Hana]

[quote="Bob"]Hana has even flown a 20m @ Alameda....

I would err on the side of Big if you plan to ride Alameda all the time.[/quote]


Hey Bob, Hana will never fly 20m today. Hana will get blown away.

[sflinux]

Listen to Bob's advice, a 12M flysurfer is the smallest you'd want for the light wind days of alameda. That being said, if you are a light guy, you could probably get away with something around a 13M. If you are heavier, lean more towards a 17M. Just be sure to use a good light wind board because these kites really come alive with board speed.
I am used to flying big kites: 21M (15M proj) lei, 23M (16M proj) lei.
I just picked up a 21M (19M proj) flysurfer psycho2 and IMO, hands down there is no comparison for light winds. I am surprised there are not more flysurfers in alameda. Must be the price of their kites. But no tube (slingshot machine, cabrinha contra, cabrinha xbow, etc) can compete with a flysurfer for light winds (sub 10 mph) like alameda.
1 kite quiver, absolutely not. But I can see a 2 kite /2 board quiver serving most of the days in the bay area. For me, a 17M (8-18 mph) flysurfer speed and a 11M (15-30 mph) lei would serve me well. And for those rare 10 days a year, a 8M lei would serve the 25-40 mph range.
Live2kite, any chance you guys will be demo-ing the new flysurfer speed kites, I know a number of people are interested. It would be neat to see one of these kites in the thursday night races. Great to hear we have a local dealer for fs kites.
-bric