How much do I need in my piggy bank to get started?

Steve C · Post by **Steve C** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:56 pm

First off, thanks to all who contribute to this fantastic forum. I am sitting behind a desk in New York and dreaming about learning to kite surf which will happen when I move to San Fran in the next month or two.

I wanted some advice on how much you think I need in my piggy bank to get to a stage where I am up and running (obviously this depends on natural ability but in general).

I have a practice kite and have had a one hour lesson already (body dragging).

Most lessons seem about $300 per 3 hour session, from reading the description of each lesson segment I think I will need about 3 sessions or $900.

Most people on this site seem to be 150lbs (!) but I am an average Irish lad who grew up eating potatoes 7 days a week, so I am slightly bigger - 210lbs and 6' 4". The instructor I had before (in Puerto Rico) said I would need a 17 m kite (he also recommend a bow kite). Is it realisitic to pick up this size kite secondhand? I looked on this site and on craigslist and didn't see much.

If I have to buy everything from scratch I presume I am talking around $2k including wetsuit. Does this seem right?

With lessons and gear combined it seems to be around $3k total which seems steep, am I missing something?

Lastly, the instructor recommend a Liquid Assault kite, I havent seen any reviews on this site for that kite, any general comments.

Thanks for all your help, roll on San Fran.........

Don Bogardus · Post by **Don Bogardus** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:30 pm

Most students I teach can safely get by with 5 hours
of lessons, ( after flying trainer kite for several hours till its easy).
Alameda Beach is absolutley Ideal for learning to be an independent kiter!.

My pick for a beginner kite, (or my personel kites), is modern 5th line C kites
with bow like depower such as : Naish Torch 07', or North Vegas 06'+07'.
Anything bigger than 16m is a painfully slow pig in my opinion.Just make sure
your first board is a big, light wind board!. :)

mfremont · Post by **mfremont** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:08 pm

I probably spent less than $900 on lessons when I started in 2005, but more than $2k on equipment, since I bought new kites (on sale at the end of the season) and a new board. All up, $3k probably is probably a good size piggy bank to get started because you'll be able to afford both lessons and good gear.

There are lots of good 2006 kites that would be suitable for a beginner -- lots of range and quick depower -- and judging by the number of 2007 kites I saw flying at Sherman Island this weekend, I'm going to guess that you should start seeing more of the 2006 used gear for sale soon. That should help keep the cost down.

I'm not familiar with Liquid Assault, so I'll let someone else comment on that.

Since North, Slingshot, Best, Cabrina, Caution, and Naish seem to be the most common brands you see flying at the bay area sites, I'm going to guess that you're most likely to find these in the used market. Also check with the area schools. It's still early in the season, so they're likely to still have 2006 kites that they're ready to sell.

As for kite size, I'm about 230-240lbs and my 2005 Vegas 16m and 12m work well for the typical summer conditions here. I find that my effective range on each kite is closer to the kite two sizes smaller: my 16m gives me the range listed on the chart for 12m and my 12m gives me the range listed on the chart for the 8m. I'm guessing that you would probably find that your range would be one, rather than two, sizes smaller.

The bonus with the 2006 and 2007 kites is that you will get better overlap between the sizes and a bit more range overall. At 210lbs you could probably choose a 14m or 15m as your big kite and a 10m or 11m as your small kite and get a very usable wind range for bay area conditions.

For a board, you may have a little more trouble finding a good beginner big board in the used market. I say this because the size alone of a board doesn't tell you whether it's a good choice for a beginner. The first board I bought was a Fanatic that measured 152 x 42cm. By the size would seem to be a good choice, but because it required a fair bit of speed to plane and fell off plane easily, it wasn't a good beginner board. If I had started with a different board, I probably would have made much faster progress in the 10-15 sessions after my initial lessons. Personally, I found the Spleene Door a great board to learn on because it planes very easily, glides well, goes upwind very well, and is very forgiving. I don't know if anyone is carrying them in the area. I'm keeping mine for light wind and shopping for a smaller board to use for all around riding. You might want to consider a similar approach: buy a good lightwind board to learn on -- it will plane easily, which is very helpful at the beginner stage -- then once you can go upwind consistently and start to ride in stronger conditions, buy a smaller board and keep the other board for light wind.

You didn't ask about instructors, but I'm happy to recommend Donny and Sandy at Kitopia (kitopia.BIZ). I liked both of their instructional styles, attention to safety, and the jet ski or boat support is the only way to go for a beginner lesson. Sherman Island is a good place for lessons because of the consistency of the wind: small gust range and day after day of good wind in the summer, which makes it much more likely that you'll get wind on the day you have a lesson scheduled. I also like the fact that they take beginners far upwind, which is well away from where most of the experienced kiters are. This makes it easier and safer for everyone. The only downside is that when you're ready to practice on your own, you'll need to go to a site with a bigger beach, like Alameda.

Steve C · Post by **Steve C** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:59 pm

Thanks very much for the posts. Mfremont, good to know there is a few more heavyweights in the forum! :)

steve · Post by **steve** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:02 pm

steve c:
1) welcome to the Bay Area...great place; especially to kite.
2) if you will be relocating to the "East Bay," then contact Jeff at Kite Wind Surf for lessons...he also owns Kite Wind Surf (the shop) and if you buy equip from him you get about 1/2 your lesson fee back as a discount toward the equip www.kitewindsurf.com
3) if you are relocating to the Peninsula, contact Jeff Kafka at WOW...www.wowkite.com
4) These are the two Best schools in the Bay and both use Jetski assistance
5) you can get your lesson, harness,wetsuit, kite, board, all new, for about $2500 before discounts
6) If you want to buy used, count on about 1/2 original retail for 1 year old stuff
7) take your lesson b-4 you buy ...everything will be provided in the lesson
steve

fearlu · Post by **fearlu** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:06 pm

Mr. Fremont has it right-- at 210 Irish potatoes you will need either a 10 and a 14 with a big board (probably preferred for a beginner season) or a 12 and a 16 (with a large and medium board) as we both seem to prefer. (I'm a nice, light 240 German sausages myself.)

Moneywise I suggest a really wealthy new girlfriend that works weekends!

mfremont · Post by **mfremont** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:14 pm

Steve C wrote:Thanks very much for the posts. Mfremont, good to know there is a few more heavyweights in the forum! :)

You'll see Dave posting pretty regularly.

He's probably a bit bigger than me, but looks like he trimmed down over the winter. Dave?

I will be much better off when I get down below 215.

Don Bogardus · Post by **Don Bogardus** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:50 pm

[quote="steve"]steve c:
1) welcome to the Bay Area...great place; especially to kite.
2) if you will be relocating to the "East Bay," then contact Jeff at Kite Wind Surf for lessons...he also owns Kite Wind Surf (the shop) and if you buy equip from him you get about 1/2 your lesson fee back as a discount toward the equip www.kitewindsurf.com
3) if you are relocating to the Peninsula, contact Jeff Kafka at WOW...www.wowkite.com
4) These are the two Best schools in the Bay and both use Jetski assistance
5) you can get your lesson, harness,wetsuit, kite, board, all new, for about $2500 before discounts
6) If you want to buy used, count on about 1/2 original retail for 1 year old stuff
7) take your lesson b-4 you buy ...everything will be provided in the lesson

Who runs the best schools in the bay is the bay is one persons opinion :) .
I am an Instructor @ BoardSportsSchool.com , and I would say there is something to be said
for ALL the bay, and delta schools. Our school does teaching off of, and on to, a real kite beach,
teaching kiter Independence In a "live" format, at the only beach in bay area that a new person can gain
after lesson experience, and skills, to be able to stat practiseing at the other the spots, without boat support.

OliverG · Post by **OliverG** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:50 pm

Yeah, Dave is skinny now, but he still goes big. Qualitty lessons are important as stated above. There are many great schools in the Bay Area, you can find a complete listing of them here:

https://www.bayareakiteboarding.com/viewtopic.php?t=804

If anyone else notices a school is missing from the listing, let me know and I'll make sure it's listed.

The Bay Area is a spectacular place to live, just as much for kiting as anything else. A few years ago, it seemed many had bigger kites, some even up to 18m or 20m, but that's changed and most, even the bigger guys, get by fine with nothing larger than a 16. Many do well with two boards using the bigger board for lighter conditions and smaller kites.

Mfremont's post covers everything you need to know about gear. 06 gear can and will be available for nice prices, so you may as well try to aim for that rather than anything older.

mfremont · Post by **mfremont** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:01 pm

BayAreaKite wrote:Yeah, Dave is skinny now, but he still goes big.

Of course. But will he go even bigger now?

BayAreaKiteboarding.com

How much do I need in my piggy bank to get started?

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