Who thinks the world is not flat?

jjm · Post by **jjm** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:22 am

OK, so there is a lot of excitement about the flat/bow kites.

So, how many people are intending to NOT go with a flat/bow solution, and why? Going for a standard shape with a (near?) total depower solution? Interested, but anti-leading edge (hehe) technology. Don't like following trends. Flown a few different models, and thought they sucked.

If you've based your choice on kite's you've already flown, what are they, and what didn't you like?

I figured this could go in its own thread.

Sander · Post by **Sander** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:28 am

As long as the bow kites cost $1300 I'm going to stick with the old-school design with a good depower bar.

Don't get caught up in the gear hype! Find something within your budget that works for you and then go use it.

I have a 14m Slingshot Fuel and 10m Flexifoil Storm II, both with homebrew 5th lines, and a 12m WW Rapture that might replace the others. The 5th line setup is nice for taming these older kites when op'd, but the pulley bar on the Rap seems to do the same thing.

zgur · Post by **zgur** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:53 am

Interesting way you have of enticing us to defend a position with your post title "who things the world is not flat???" I'm not going to take your bait, but will share my pt. of view.

I just replaced my quiver with Vegas 2006 kites. They are C kites with a good depower range. There is nothing that these kites lack in performance that I need to address with a different kite design. If there is no problem, why do I need to solve anything??? I'm fascinated with out consumer society which is CONSTANTLY focused on solving problems that are not there........

I am going to focus my season on raising the skill of the rider, vs. hoping that the latest technology will address shortcomings. I love how a well powered C kite feels while doing freestyle and riding waves. To me kiting is a feel sport, having flown a bow kite, I was less the impressed with how it felt. I'm sure there are some models out there that feel like a C kite...again, no problem exists.......

I love seeing innovation in the sport. A similar thing happened in skiing 10 years ago with introduction of wide skis. Not too many "thin" skis on the mountian these days. The biggest difference is that wide skis solved quite a few problems that narrow GS/SL skis could not address - mostly in new/deep/soft snow. On a firm day, a good GS ski is still the only way to go. Once some new snow flies, I'm one of the first people to done wide sticks......

There is a segment of the kite world that will benefit from the flat kites - awesome.

In the grand scheme of things, all that matters is are you having fun? Don't get cought up in gear lust, cause you will NEVER be satisfied: this applies to all sports. He who gets off the water with the biggest stoke (feels truly satisfied) - wins. Don't loose sight of the big picture - having maximun fun on this big round world.

Good winds + waves, Z.

Pablito · Post by **Pablito** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:11 pm

Yeah, when I stop having fun on my '03 twelve and my '04 fourteen, or they fall apart, I'll think about one bow to replace them both.

I replaced my '04 ten C kite with an '05 ten C kite with "total" depower because I beat the crap out of it last season. I'm cheap and bow kites are expensive right now.

I just got a pair of brand new, '05 skis for $300 -- about half price. I demoed them last week, loved 'em, and then found them online. Our consumer society is so crazy now that all it takes is a little patience and research, and you can get last year's newest technology for pennies on the dollar.

dewey · Post by **dewey** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:51 pm

Z,

I was wondering if you stayed with your Vegas kites, after reading your posts about the waroo. So your sticking with the Vegas? That kite has a cool concept. I'm sticking to big air with more options this year. Maybe a C style bow next year.

OliverG · Post by **OliverG** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:21 pm

I'll add my 2 cents here also...

My experience with bow kites is pretty limited, but I have flown a couple and have read with interest pretty much all feedback good or bad about them here. It seems to me that the major claimed appeal of these kites is greater depower and range over C-kites. It is a possibility that's the case with some of the C-kites, but certainly not all. Zeev says his 06 Vegas kites rock, and Jeff at KWS has said the same claiming major depower. At the end of last year I got on an RRD Type 7 and have for the most part given up flying most everything else, the excpetion being the 05 Type Waves. The RRD Type 7 is way sick with the Type 7 bar and with the TDP bar offers even more depower. I have yet to see any clear performance advantage of the bow kites, although interestingly enough, I have recently heard good things about the Waroo.

Anyway, that's how I see things, if it's not broken, don't fix it. A kite like the Type 7 does more things better and is suited for more conditions and styles of riding than any other kite I've flown while still providing plenty of safety, depower and range, so why go with anything else?

jjm · Post by **jjm** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:01 pm

zgur wrote:Interesting way you have of enticing us to defend a position with your post title "who things the world is not flat???" I'm not going to take your bait, but will share my pt. of view.

Good winds + waves, Z.

Zeev,

Sorry, I thought it would be fun to play with words.

I wasn't looking for anyone to defend their decisions. That sort of implies that there is a right or wrong decision to be made, and there isn't.

What I was really wanted to know is why people are or would not be interested at the moment in going with a flat/bow kite. You've addressed this in your response, thank you as that is what I was looking for.

Thanks, and sorry again if that came off wrong.

Cheers,
Josh

andyandmarlys · Post by **andyandmarlys** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:01 pm

Tomorrow it should be windy at Alameda. I will have a 2006 12m Vegas to demo and my 12m Turbo Diesel to Demo. Both are good representatives of what is the latest technology in kiting.

Come talk to me and try either or both... If someone has a Rapture, Waroo, or RRD, i'd love to try them too. Also if it gets windy, I have an 8m Turbo Diesel I'll let you try.

I don't want to unrealistically hype a kite, so come try what I have, and then make your own decision... Then tomorrow evening we can write about experiences rather than speculation...

Andy

PS.. I agree with Z.... just get on the water and you'll be jazzed....

It has been a while since we have had a good blow, so we are all probably a bit windhorny..

consumer · Post by **consumer** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:56 pm

yea if its not broken dont fix it, but if its even more badass, i want it ;).

lets face it, when a kite is just even a tad bit better, its just that much more enjoyable. We are all human, we can never truely be satisfied(atleast I can't) the day i stop demanding for growth both in myself and in my gear, is the day i committ suicide.

kitebored · Post by **kitebored** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:40 pm

This discussion reminds me of some old kite video (liquid revolution?) where niccolo is saying something like "chickenloops are for pussies" and "two line is where to be", or along those lines

nowdays, two line kites are a vestige and virtually everybody rides 4, or even 5th line kites. I wonder if bow kites are the next step in this progression.

I'm left pondering if sticking with C-kites is being stupid, stubborn, and avoiding progression; or if bow kites are just the new, hyped, "need to have" item that will either need generations of refinement (a la hellfish), or just plain fizzle out (recon)

I guess time will tell... but i want to know now.

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