Wave etiquette?

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Re: Wave etiquette?

Postby sloughslut » Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:45 pm

what do mea culpa mean :think:
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Re: Wave etiquette?

Postby John Doe » Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:59 pm

behindThePeak wrote:i don't see how being a pro or having a camera pointed at someone exempts them from waiting in line for surf like the rest of us.


+1

and this isn't aimed at Mr. Mulcoy but especially when being a kitesurfing pro usually means that the person was in some situation where they don't have to work 40 hours a week & pay a mortgage.

maybe they get free gear but they don't get any income from kiting. even the top guys on the KSP don't make any $. there is no prize money, + tickets to fly around the world, + time not making money, I could go on, how do "pros" come up with all that???
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Re: Wave etiquette?

Postby friggin old guy » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:14 pm

I think pros come under some pressure to produce just like anybody else does.....in the sense that they need to generate positive exposure for both themselves and the folks that sponsor them. With that in mind, I can see why they might have extra temptation to snag a good one thats right there for the taking.

Most of these guys are good enough that they can snag the good ones simply by means of their own talents instead of burning people all the time......but I don't think you should begrudge giving the odd wave or two up if they're totally in the sweet spot.

As long as they don't overdo it.........I don't think they'd get much positive PR by being dickheads all the time.

All this is easy to say. It's hard to back off of a really good one when you're there.
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Re: Wave etiquette?

Postby Aloha » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:22 pm

Point of clarification - are you saying when you're inbound in the swell/wave formation zone and 2 guys are caught between forming swell ... The downwind guy gets the face as it stands up to turn into and ride, and the upwind guy has to bear off... is he supposed to just head into the beach and then tack back out from there?

Right now at Waddell I just try not to go in for anything until I get a break where no one is on that wave plane so haven't run into that scenario much... If I have, I'm super conservative and just let the other guy go (even if he's upwind of me I usually just head in and then do another tack or two until I get one to myself to ride)
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Re: Wave etiquette?

Postby behindThePeak » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:02 pm

it's interesting, it seems to me that there are two schools of thought about kite-surf etiquette:

1: first kiter on the wave gets the wave, even if that wave was just a swell when the kiter found it way on the outside and 'rode' it in until it broke. anyone else who tries to take that wave after it has been claimed would be snaking if from behind or dropping in if in front. either scenario is lame

or

2: kiter closest to the peak of the breaking wave when it actually breaks gets the wave. position on the wave when it first breaks is all that matters. anyone down the line at that point is dropping in or hopping the shoulder: also lame

i can see the logic for either method. on the one hand if you followed a wave for a long time it's a bummer to see someone jump on it upwind of you as soon as it starts to pay off; but on the other hand it's an art to get yourself right in the sweet spot at the perfect time and it's a bummer to time everything right and then get dropped in on by some dude on the shoulder.

i'm usually alone when i kite so i'm not sure which is the more accepted rule set but whenever i venture out at one of the more popular spots it's funny to watch these two philosophies clash.
Last edited by behindThePeak on Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wave etiquette?

Postby friggin old guy » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:32 pm

generally speaking, it's like surfing.......the guy that's deepest has priority. It's complicated a little by the fact that you can pick a wave up way outside, so it's kind of frowned upon to short tack or weasel jibe just upwind of somebody that's already on a wave, injecting yourself into the priority position.

In the scenario put up by Aloha, it would depend who jibed onto the wave first.....they would theoretically have priority. If they both jibed and got on the wave at the same time, the upwind guy would be deeper and have priority.

I tend to bear off outside if I'm giving up on the wave rather than go inside, easier to stay out of the way and better signals your intent.

If you're in a situation like that at Waddell and you're the upwind guy and you see you'd rather go left, if you can signal to the downwind guy to go right, you'll get points. Points count.
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Re: Wave etiquette?

Postby Bulldog » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:38 pm

There is no clash of philosophies at the Norcal wave spots. It's pretty clear that the etiquette is: Get in line, ride to the outside, take your turn. If a swell is coming in and you are 100% sure no one else is riding it towards the beach, you can take it. Or, you can wait until all the guys in front of you have jibed and gotten on a wave/swell and then wait until you see one that looks really good and do the same.

If two riders end up riding in on the same piece of swell, the one who is further upwind has rights to the wave. If you don't ride far enough out before jibing onto a swell, you will probably end up losing it to someone who rode further out. Kiters who are not familiar with wave spots tend to find themselves in this situation because they don't pay attention to what everyone else is doing. If someone else magically appears further upwind of you going the same direction, they are not poaching your wave, you are poaching theirs.

You can hang around on the inside and wait for a wave to come through without an inbound rider on it (or for someone to biff and fall), and a few people do this most of the time. But if everyone did it, it would cause chaos because there just isn't that much room on the inside.

Jibing onto a wave that someone else has ridden from the outside is called short tacking, and it is generally considered a serious breach of etiquette. However, well-established locals will do it fairly frequently when they don't recognize the inbound rider or don't think they have to skill to shred the wave.

I would highly advise against impolite comments to said locals if you are a visitor to their break. :)
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Re: Wave etiquette?

Postby Aloha » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:02 am

I like FOG's suggestion - if you end up on same swell plane as someone else and your'e upwind just go left on it in, then tack back out for another go (not like you even have to give up ground)

Is there a "go ahead, take the right" hand signal to use at Waddell that makes your intention clear?
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Re: Wave etiquette?

Postby behindThePeak » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:44 am

Bulldog wrote:There is no clash of philosophies at the Norcal wave spots.


Bulldog wrote:You can hang around on the inside and wait for a wave to come through without an inbound rider on it (or for someone to biff and fall), and a few people do this most of the time.


^there's the clash

Bulldog wrote:Jibing onto a wave that someone else has ridden from the outside is called short tacking, and it is generally considered a serious breach of etiquette. However, well-established locals will do it fairly frequently when they don't recognize the inbound rider or don't think they have to skill to shred the wave.


^there it is again

Bulldog wrote:I would highly advise against impolite comments to said locals if you are a visitor to their break. :)


^people can't own breaks. everyone deserves the same basic respect no matter where they live or ride. beyond that some ride well enough to inspire extra respect, some are friendly enough to foster extra respect. others demand special treatment by less impressive means: numbers, attitude, ect... the latter group should not be tolerated in kiting. just my $0.02
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Re: Wave etiquette?

Postby friggin old guy » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:18 am

Is there a "go ahead, take the right" hand signal to use at Waddell that makes your intention clear?


Not really....just wave them in rather than off.....you can also signal intent by bearing up hard. The onus is on the guy downwind of you to figure out what you're going to do.....most folks will be pretty cautious about dropping in unless they're sure you're going to go left.

+1 on behindThePeak's comments: trouble starts when a sense of entitlement due to territoriality or self-perceived superior ability trumps common sense and mutual respect.

Bulldog's called-out comments are just telling it like it is, maybe not how it ought to be......
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