RRD 2010 bar and shoulder injury

[Piotrp]

I got injured last weekend (dislocated shoulder - I don't wish that pain on anybody). This happened on a relatively remote beach with only me, my wife and some other kiter present. There were some "civilians" on the cliff who contacted a ranger who called the ambulance. The accident happened while I was self-launching in strong winds - something I've done many, many times before. This time was different because my kite SPONTANEOUSLY powered up (i.e. the cleat "decided" to let go the de-power line). Before I could release (which I did a split second later) my shoulder was out of socket.

Now - here is my gripe: the RRD 2010 (and 2009) safety features are not sufficient - poorly designed and unreliable. This cleat would release without my intervention in the past, the donkey-dick would get loose and fell off making my kite to go unhooked and the whole release mechanism is inferior in comparison with other leading brands. I know that RRD changed the bar for the 2011 kites. I can't comment on that new bar. (OK - I know you're asking yourself why I attempted to self-launch while knowing that the safety is not 100%; the only answer I can give is that in the past I always managed to recover, i.e. to pull down the de-power line and did not anticipate such a dramatic outcome - this assumption is my fault).

I wonder if any of you, RRD kiters, have had similar problems (minus the injury, of course) and if you made any replacement of the parts to make this bar safe.

ONE MORE IMPORTANT COMMENT: "the other kiter" is Mike and lives in Mill Valley. I don't know his last name. He's a very experienced (and very good) kiter and absolutely wonderful human being. He helped us a lot: immediately came in when he saw that I was in trouble, landed his kite, assisted my wife, retrieved my kite from where it landed after the release, packed our all gear (as my wife was trying to make sure that I don't pass out). I'm very lucky that he was around.

[Aloha]

Donkey dick has broken before on me leading to some rad unhooked action on a nuking Crissy day out by the North Tower--and a crash/tangle that ultimately lead to a CG rescue.

Safety has gotten stuck on a punch out self-land on another nuking day at Crissy leading to a kite that was way out of my hands from a control standpoint yet still powered up...

But in the first case it was a Naish bar, and in the 2nd case it was a North bar

I think any brand can produce oh crap moments from a safety system standpoint. I am riding the 2011 RRD bar and that thing has been nothing but clean and amazing so far this season (knock on wood). Have had no problems with the trim strap but I only use it to trim the bar position--not to try and make a 10.5 an 8 like a lot of people will

Sorry to hear about your shoulder man.. :( Also keep in mind for future that self-launching by exposing the kite to a "warm launch" can also pose some serious risks to your kite--if you haven't experienced them yet then the day you do you'll know exactly what I mean.

Mike sounds like a cool dude and props for being a good citizen.. Be safe out there and most importantly have fun

[wind and waves]

The 2011 Bar has been completely redesigned and is quite safe. It's a great bar.

I've never heard of cam cleats failing. If anything, it can be difficult to get the rope free of the cam cleat if there is light or no tension on a dry trim line. Cam cleats are common on many bars including the 2011 RRD bar. When launching, you may want to verify that the trim line is adequately seated in the cam cleat.

Why didn't you just drop the bar if suddenly overpowered in a self launch scenario? All the kites in the 2010 RRD line-up have ample depower when you let go of a bar.

What type and size kite were you on?

[behindThePeak]

thanks for posting this dude, it's a good heads up to keep an eye on de-power while launching.

sorry to hear about your shoulder, hope you heal soon.

fwiw: my '09 RRD bar doesn't do this, but my f.one Bandit 3 de-power slips often. both were bought used from different folks with different riding styles. my guess is that it's the result of wear on the de-power rope; more use pattern than brand design. i bet the rope can be replaced... i've been thinking about doing it to my bandit. has anyone done that successfully?

[Piotrp]

So, it's good (and not good) to know that other bars could fail too. I keep kicking myself for not chipping extra $50 for the 2011 bar. I bought this kite/bar at Live2Kite. It was a demo, but I was offered to purchase the kite with the new bar. I was over my budget and that extra $50 was pushing me deeper in red. I also didn't realize that there is such a big difference between 2010 and 2011. That was - hands down - one of the worst money-saving moves I've made.

As for dropping the bar when I got punched: I did, but it was too late. I'd like to see the whole think in slow-mo so I can see where I could've saved myself. I'm not saying that the whole thing was unavoidable. I THINK, I might have tried (again for a fraction of sec) to "fight", i.e. try to move the kite overhead and grab the trim line to de-power it - this worked in the past). It was 9m kite and over 200 lb - my wife and Mike were both on similar size kites. It was a lot of kite for the conditions, but not out-of-control-over-power craziness. The line was firmly sitting in the cleat (I checked it and adjusted it, as it has an inch, or so of a "power slack"). That's actually the most disconcerting.

[cliftoncutshall]

I was hot launched once (09 RRD Bar) skipped across the launch site till kite made 12:00, and found my de-power out of the cleat. Not sure if It slipped or if I failed to seat it properly. Lesson learned! I firmly pull on the line to be sure it is well seated in the cleat on every launch as a matter of habit. Never happened again. :D

[marinkiter]

Sorry to hear about your kitemare Piotrp. Had my shoulder go out 20+ times before I went with surgery - never from kiting though.

Were you launching unhooked? If not, I would think you would have been pulled forward by your harness, not from your shoulder. Also, I was under the impression that the difference between a kite fully depowered and fuklly powered (front lines extended or pulled in by 6" or so) wouldn't be enough to create such a drastic pull if the kite was on the edge of the window. Did the kite somehow fly into the power zone when you launched?

To be clear, I'm not challenging anything, just want to get my mind around the whole scenario to help me know what to watch for if/when I begin self launching.

Thanks,

Jon

[Piotrp]

Jon - first, I don't feel that you're challenging anything and to be honest I want figure out myself where and how things went wrong.

I think it was a combination of the factors. The kite didn't start going up like it usually did. My smaller RRDs stand up very quickly and don't require much real estate for self-launching (btw: I only launch hooked). This time that kite started to slide toward the wind window on its leading edge. My 12m rhinos (in, of course, much lighter winds) would launch like that.

I saw that the it is fully powered up when it was in the air and quickly going into the wind window. Now, I disagree with you about the difference between de-powered and fully powered. When I'd experience that in the past the difference was either staying in the same place, or getting slightly lifted, or dragged on my feet. I would've always recovered, so there is a some argument to be made about other factors that might've been at work (i.e. full power was combined with bad response on my part).

Maybe I'm wrong about the timing (and the direct cause) of the dislocation - it might've not happened when I got pulled, but when I hit the ground with my arm still extended. I definitely punch out too late. I guess, I was hoping to recover, so I activated the release when was on the direct crash course with the cliff (low cliff - the kite was flying above it).

[windhorny]

I havent had any bad experiences with my RRD gear. I can say that the 2011 bars are way nicer and cleaner. The only thing that the 2010 and earlier bars had issues with were the short 5th line tangling a bunch if you spun in one direction only. The nice thing with 2010 bars is that you can grab the release and untwist this while riding, where the new bars take a little more torque to untwist. Also, from what i understand, the 2011 bars actually depower "more" since they have a longer release distance when the safety is pulled. The older kites/bars had a tendency to not depower that much in gusty conditions.

[consumer]

Falling on an outstretched arm- text book for a labrum tear- it won't heal to restore stability. Get surgery if you want to severely reduce your risk of dislocation again. I put it off for 2 years before a dislocation put my life in jeopardy, and I was lucky enough to make it out alive. I chose surgery and while it's a tough recovery, it's amazing how much of my stability has been restored.

Sorry for the dislocation, I sympathize that it is the worst pain I've ever felt and gives me shudders when I try to remember what it felt like.