ALAMEDA NEWBIES

[windhorny]

To add fuel to the fire, is this law similar to the one that says NO one else is allowed to demo at the beach unless it is a brand boardsports sells? Hell North had the cops called on them twice for demoing here. But now that Boardsports carries North everything is happy as a clam.

[OliverG]

True enough!

This is something I've not commented on but have an opinion on, so here it is. Personally, I feel that to prohibit a simple demo is kind of bogus! No transaction of any kind is taking place, no one's offering lessons, no one's selling gear, no commercial element - nothing. All that takes place is letting someone try a kite or board!

But the retailer there has no problem bringing their brands elsewhere, such as Crissy and 3rd to demo...
:-k

[maxsteamer]

Hello Yuri,

TO FUNNY!!!! You Tarzan me Jane...I'm not sure on that one??.. I wanted to carry North Sails at my windsurfing store and they refused my business because they had a dealer in the area.

After I sold more sails then the other dealers in the area they sent "Danny North", there rep. at the time to the shop to put together a order.. To answer your question..Now that they do business with "Boardsports" they will be welcome to demo and promote there gear.

If you were to "Demo" a New North board or kite before they sold the gear?? this would promote business away from them to another entity. Therefore taking bread off there table.

Hey!!! They bring alot of money to Alameda and they don't take alot home at the end of the day.
I have been in there shoes.. and I do worry about them as they are to skinny?? so when I see the girls walkin' up the beach I rush them a mint.. a staple for immediate energy.

They are the Stoke under are wings.."Just like you Yuri !!!!

[OliverG]

I'm pretty open these days about encouraging everyone to share their industry/product/demo info here. We are pro-competition and more info is better.

This may seem rambling, but it's to make a point, which will hopefully make sense.

Most people know who the supporters of BAK are, it's plain to see in the banners and home page links, so hopefully folks will appreciate that they are the ones who feel strongly enough about the site to help support it and in turn help us to make it as good as it can be, fast, reliable and keep the site bills paid.

At one time, a few supporter requests/complaints came in and the feeling was that if they are supporting this site, why should those who aren't be given free reign to promote their cause?

I mistakenly responded to their complaints by trying to limit or control the promotion or free advertising non-supporters were posting. It was a big mistake, and I learned from it. :!: :roll: ](*,)

In an effort to appease a few, all I ended up doing was alienating, irritating and even angering some, which is the last thing I'd ever want to do here and to our users and community. The best thing to do is to have faith in the community and trust that they will do things in a reasonable and tasteful way and guess what - they do!

The original topic in this thread has strayed, but my story relates to what we're talking about now. If a brand, shop or school wants to advertise here, great, we can do that. If a brand, shop or school just wants to make information available about a product, or DEMO that's ok also. We don't have a concession on options, information and free speech and won't prohibit a brand, school or shop from making information and options available to kiters for the sole reason that they don't PAY.

So, my opinion is only about demos - not lessons or sales, that aspect I understand. But this is the way I see it - an Alameda entity can conduct demos at whatever location they like outside of Alameda free of charge and use this site to promote it free of charge, but no one can demo at Alameda. True or false?

[maxsteamer]

Hello Olli,

My favorite kite was my 15m link...I should have never sold that kite... The SS bar is now the only bar that is copied year after year with very little change to the original design. NICE!!

I apologize for hijacking this thread from it's original topic.. with that out of the way, A guy by the name of "Swazik" not sure on the spelling, taught me something I wanted to share with the kiting community.. I had a disagreement with a fellow kiter and he chimed in with "Hey guys we are here to kite not fight. I learned something that day... that It is all about the stoke and not the poke. If I was the concessionaire and a rep or the like came up and asked me if it would ok for him to demo some kites... My first thought??.. would be what is in it for my concession.. my second thought??.. would be what if someone get's hurt and that brand of kite is not on my coverage policy. third would be what if they take the demo down the beach and I did not know about it. Not to change the subject but I used to ride my bike down the shoreline here in Alameda, and put fliers on every car, or truck, with racks. and I would see a demo going on with a brand of windsurfing gear I did not sell.. The kind of guy I was I waved and gave the shaka to them ..on my way back I saw them bring the people to a rental truck and 4 or five people were leaving with gear and or cards.

I was trying to make a deadline for my shop rent.. had not been home because I was putting footstraps on boards and printing a flyer for a sale the next day so I wiped the tears from my eyes and road my bike back to the shop. when I got there two people were there that said a guy at the beach said you would help us rig our sails. they offered me a sixpack of beer. one of the guys said I had ink in my eyes. It hurts the girls to call the cops.. if they could change that law they would trust me on that...They are told to not have words with anyone this is what the park police are paid to do.

[OliverG]

I don't think we're on the same page at all. I'm not and haven't been talking about anything to do with sales or lessons, I'm clear on that.

No one's fighting, only pointing out the hypocrisy that exists, and it's a fact. I'll repost my statement of what I see to be true:

"an Alameda entity can conduct demos at whatever location they like outside of Alameda free of charge and use this site to promote it free of charge, but no one can demo at Alameda. True or false?"

If I ran this site like they do at that beach, I would prevent them from promoting anything to do with their brands, demos or events here. Is that fair? No, and I wouldn't do that.

[Greg]

The only way I can see a happy ending to this is to REMOVE this idea that one group has priviledges to the exclusion of all others-

inequality breeds resistance-
L.M.G.

[jbirdmarin]

It appears "true" is the answer to Ollie's question. Seems like that is just because Alameda has different laws and regulations from other county/city/state launches. Wouldn't surprise me if this sort of thing (concession laws and rules) exist elsewhere, but they don't in the Bay Area. Fair or not, its how it is. How Boardsports goes with the flow or not is their decision, and even if it doesn't appear fair, it is within their rights?

Ollie you also run a business: BAK (non profit? :) ) which you could easily pepper with products that help your kiting stuff. You have chosen to keep the two separate by keeping advertising and content 100% neutral - I think a lot of us respect you for that , keep up the good work!

[reyrivera]

Whoever lobbied and got the initial concession rule approved had business monopoly in mind. I guess bad regulations get implemented when the general public ignores notifications of new rules presented for debate in local meetings. Good move for the concession owners, bad news for us beach users.

This topic has been continually brought up year after year. I still clearly remember the 2008 incident when Board Sports School (there I said their name, oh the horror) called the cops on the now defunct KiteWindSurf company for simply doing a simple demo of North kites.

There was a confusion on what the rules are, please correct me if I misinterpreted past discussion on this topic: Board Sports said that whoever wants to do a simple demo of their stuff should get approval from the State Parks and Recreation. State Parks said that they can’t do anything because allowing demos is at the discretion of Board Sports School, so we go on this roundabout yearly debate on what is allowed on the beach. See the following links:

Store representatives acting badly (or maybe trying to protect their livelihood)
https://www.bayareakiteboarding.com/for ... 57&p=34992

Beginners not playing nice
https://www.bayareakiteboarding.com/for ... =20&t=5762


I myself am guilty of breaking the rules there: 1) Walking my kite up the beach, 2) Teaching my wife how to kite. I don’t think I ever put any non-kiters in danger though because I try to use common sense and avoid regular beach goers at all costs. I have had incidents where I put some kiters at risk doing bonehead moves, but made sure that I apologized and made it up to the kiter(s) that I have wronged. I try to make amends by approaching beginners and teaching them some skills that they need so they can avoid further trouble.

What’s my point?
1) Board Sports School should try to be flexible and allow other brands some kind of informal demo, i.e. just let some kiters demo kites they want to ride. Let them do it quietly without any fanfare and to a point where you don’t lose business. Have them show proof of insurance or have them sign a waiver so they get 100% fault if something goes wrong. Your business will be respected a lot more for doing this instead of calling the cops because you are insecure of losing business.
2) Any kiter at some point will make a mistake, especially beginners. Just let the kiter know their mistake and how to correct it. If it is a blatant disregard to non kiting beach goers and the kiter keeps doing it, then go ahead, beat up the guy/girl surfer rules, or maybe a much more appropriate non violent form of intervention, take your best approach.

[windhorny]

Here's another perspective. Let's say that a competing company DID obtain a permit. Would they have the cops called on them before even being asked? The permit would be between the city and the demo organizer, not between them and boardsports.

The point is, has this issue become so "hair trigger", that the competitor doesn't even have a chance to show their permit before having police present? Basically it is just assumed that any other company does not. And albeit it is normally not but still. One is still innocent until proven guilty, right? This is kinda like racial profiling on a kite school level.

Now that I am a team rider for RRD I am sincerely afraid to even let someone try my kite anywhere near the shack.

After Boardsports called North to tell them someone was flying a kite that was a color they didnt sell and then got pinpointed back to me, blaming me for selling a kite to a friend before leaving North- I realized the sensitivity of the business. And to clarify I had purchased a kite a week before making a decision to move to RRD. I never flew the kite and sold it to my neighbor/friend who was going to buy something new anyways. I made zero profit and I saw it as a way of getting one last person on North before leaving. But they saw it as a threat!

This is just another one of those, seemingly many, examples of actions made from feeling threatened as to solid evidence or fact. On a personal level I love you girls but this really pissed me off!