BayAreaKiteboarding.com

After getting his message:

Blackbird (sorry I don't know your name)

As I am new to kiteing and I also have a bow kite, do you think I might give you a call to help me further understand a few of the points you have made regarding safety with this style of kite.

I hope it is not out of line to ask for your number to you to call. This would help me to fully understand what you are talking about.

Great story (by the way) so glad you came out OK...

Thanks

Rich

I figure I should just elaborate for all:

The safety on the Crossbow is great. I just seem to have found a very small hole in the system. Basically my points on safety with these kites are as follows, and this is MY OPINION only (insert lawyerly clause here):

1. With all bow/flat kites, launch with the chicken loop FULLY LOCKED. If it comes undone from the harness for whatever reason, like a lull, and then a gust hits, you are FULLY POWERED. The safety system relies on the chicken loop being attached to you. Make sure it is at all times.

2. If you need to self rescue, One of the front lines has a stopper ball that can be pulled. The other lines and bar then slide down as you pull on one front line to reach the kite. This is the hole in the system I found. You break this line, you basically can not self rescue.

3. Ditch the kite. The system comes with a very easy release knob that ditches the entire kite. Perfect for getting away when necessary. See my recent post on Berkeley.

4. When you do NOT want to have the kite able to 'Ditch', then hook your safety line NOT in the metal loop in the chicken loop attachment, but around the main line just above the red kite release knob, before the bar. Why? Because I have had my kite 'accidentally' release twice now. The first time was the wake up call that user error may cause kite release. The second, I had done just this setup, and was able to still pull my bar/lines back with my safety leash, relaunch, and voila. I only make this change ON THE WATER as it will void any chance of detaching from the kite in case of a terribly wrong launching incident.

5. Make sure your safety leash has a release, just in case of #4 going wrong. Imagine you think you're swift by attaching your leash like #4, kite release triggers, and then something else happens and the normal depower of the kite doesn't work, or something broke at the same time, and the kite is now flopping madly, spiraling, or otherwise powered. Pull your safety release on your leash. All gone. Safe. Yeah! Now pray you're not out in the Pacific somewhere on your own...

That is it. From all my experiences with the Crossbow, and stories from other on other flat kites, this seems the safest setup possible. I think I'll be modifying my bow kites with a second ball/hoop setup on the second front line soon... Can't wait to see if Cabrinha takes these suggestions to heart by the time the new Crossbow gets released. Such a simple modification...

Stock, the Crossbow is incredibly safe and I highly, highly recommend it. As with any kite, they have issues. In the end, check your brain and see if it is wired to let go of material goods, or put your life at risk for replaceable items. Nobody can make up for faulty wiring but yourself...

Nice post. Everyone should think about what to do when the shit hits the fan.
I would suggest an alternative to ditching the kite which is to cut all but one of the remaining lines, and use that line to reach your kite.
Go ahead and ditch kite if you are about to meet your end, but realize that by ditching the kite you are shifting the burden to someone else.

Blackbird wrote:After getting his message:

1. With all bow/flat kites, launch with the chicken loop FULLY LOCKED. If it comes undone from the harness for whatever reason, like a lull, and then a gust hits, you are FULLY POWERED. The safety system relies on the chicken loop being attached to you. Make sure it is at all times.

Depending on which flat kite you are using the leash will either attach to the chicken loop or a ring near the chicken loop which allows for release of the chicken loop while still maintaining the kite on a leash. The latter being preferable. I believe the Cabrinha has an option to attach to the chicken loop or a center power line. If you are leashed to that center line and that line snaps, once the kite is in the water why not remove your leash from that line, attach it to the chicken loop and then wrap the bar up to the kite. As long as you pull the chicken loop all the way to the stopper, the kite should be depowered enough to wrap the lines...Just grab them all in one hand and use the bar as a lever to wrap yourself up to the kite.

This is just a suggestion and I don't fly the Crossbow but it seems to me if you put slack to both the back lines and fix it there, you should have a depowered kite to wrap up and carry you safely to shore with.

One thing I know about Berkeley is there is a bit of an unspoken promise about kiting there. If you're kiting at Berkeley, you will never release your kite. When kiting there, you know that you are at risk. The Freeway lays just downwind. If you release your kite, it is likely that it could wind up on the freeway and cause injury and or death to more than just one person. If you hold on, it's likely that you will find a way to get a hold of your gear and get in safely. At worst you may lose a digit but I think most will agree that this is the chance we take when we kite somewhere that will have zero tolerance for run away kites. One incident and it's over

Gabe,

I understand your concerns, and your idea of self sacrifice for the many. I dare say you would not choose the finger or other loss at such a time. Plus, once you have seen the ability of surface tension to hold a kite on water that is no longer attached to anything, your point of self sacrifice becomes very questionable.

My point here is to use your head, even in duress. One mile upwind of highway 80, surface tension, and lots of people on a pathway are all positives to stopping a single kite from ever hitting a highway. If I were to choose the option of loosing a body part, I am SURE the kite would STILL get away after the pain involved with a major injury. If I would have been much closer to shore, I probably would have chosen to hold on to the kite until it bashed itself into the rocks, deflating, end of story.

All I am advocating is the use of your head. In a smart manner. We have all seen and heard of too many accidents, kitemares, safety issues. Every one of them was human born and avoidable. Every one. You make a choice to kite. You make a choice to kite educated or not. You make that choice knowing your equipment, or not. You make that choice knowing your surroundings, or not. Every single time I have had a problem, I can trace it back to my own choice. Every time. My choices are not always good. That is the learning process. I am trying to pass on my experiences here for the benefit of anyone willing to take the time to learn from them. Becoming more educated about any circumstances kiting makes you a better kiter.

PS: your suggestion about wrapping lines won't work. That is the exact scenario I experienced. Holding the chicken loop attachment point after breaking a front line voids the safety effect of 'depowering' the bar. You only have one line holding the front of the kite now. The kite billows out and catches plenty of air. Good idea and I hope it may work for someone. Just didn't work for this someone.

Surface tension test: If anyone is willing, you should pump up your kite, go kiting, head on out to a very large stretch of water devoid of anyone, or anything for a mile downwind. Let your kite go. I will REPLACE YOUR KITE if it manages to somehow tumble downwind, off the water, and into anything. You'll have to show me video footage of course, and if you take me seriously and do this you are nuts. The point is, suface tension of water is your friend. Why do you suppose EVERY single pro who kites in the waves would rather let go of their kite than get dragged by it? IT'S NOT GOING TO GO ANYWHERE!!! A few tumbles, gets wet, sits on the beach. Well, they at least have a boat usually waiting.

Use your head.

Gabe, no offense intended. Just experience divulged.

One more point about Berkeley...
If you are kiting Berkeley and you find yourself THAT close to shore, you probably should not be kiting there. Gabe is right, we don't want the closures due to an internationally advertised kitemare of "Kite kills afternoon commuters!" This is at least an intermediate site, with the ability to go upwind.
Once again, please use your head. Get the point?

I got a point, "if your not willing to pay the price dont join the club"...
I disagree that Berkley is "at least an intermedite site", frankly I dont think it should be a kite spot at all! I feel that kind of set up is a perfect set up for major problems....Besides there are better spots without the freeway drawback.. I've been in some heavy trouble before and I understand how that self preservation thing sets in....
And I'd retract the bet, I've personally seen kites repetedly roll and take off across water, most times they stick for periods of time-sure! but not always...
Enjoy, and nice post!
L.M.G.

Blackbird wrote:A few tumbles, gets wet, sits on the beach.

I was almost run over by a runaway kite last year. It tumbled about 50 times and was not stopping for anything! I raced in to catch it after it landed on the beach and kept going, right past some nice people strolling along. It finally got stuck in the bushes. Cabrihna recon model. The kiter said his leash broke.

I have had my kite tumble downwind at high speed after my
fith line broke.
When teaching off of boat in strong winds
I routinely have my student punch out with no leash attached
while I get him or her aboard the boat, then chase down the kite.
In strong winds,the kite ALWAYS tumbles downwind very fast!.

I beleve the behavour of bow kites during different types of self
rescues is largely untested, and is potentially extremely dangerous
due to the bridal systems inherent in their design.
I think the manufacturers are doing wrong by not extensivly testing
different emergency scenarios, and provideing detailed guidelines
on what the hell to do in the event the kite contorts its self into a
shape capable of delivering massive power due to the multible attachment points of the bridal.

I do not want to read about some fatal accident on the forums, of
someone who discovers this potential the hard way!. :!:

Worse comes to worse it is pretty easy to ditch the kite.

Not hard to do a ditch from the getgo, but if you begin a self
rescue, most times that means getting a line or two tangled
around your body in the process, and a knife only works if you
can reach the line that is pulling on you, (very difficult in the water).