advice on foil and LEI

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Postby bhsu24 » Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:15 pm

I own a 13m venom and i love it. ive had it for about 4 months now and it is amazing!!! but its just me, i also own a 15m LEI and i use it only when my budy is using my venom. super stable takes the gusts like a champ. turning is pretty fast i can still do kite loops with it. super easy water relaunch if u even get it in the water. most of the time it wants to stay up in the air. you have to force it into the water to crash it. never overflys ive taken it out in 10knts all the way up to 25knts.
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Postby Guest » Sat Aug 06, 2005 6:10 am

Forget about overlap between a flysurfer / Venom and your existing foils. Depowerable foils are different animals than fixed bridle foils. Even though sizes may appear the same, they are not. A blade 4.9 pulls like a Frenzy 9-10 even though their projected sizes are about twice than each other. A depowerable foil is a totally different experience than a fixed bridle foil, even when they generate the same pull (like a Blade 4.9 and a Frenzy 10). Its about what you can do with the kite and how it flies, not about how much power it generates. Its also not a bad idea if a new kite pushes two or three others to ebay. If you can do the same job with less kites, its only good and usually easier to explain to the spouse.

Ordered my third Flysurfer today. It's a habit.

Postby dewey » Sat Aug 06, 2005 9:22 am

A blade 4.9 pulls the same as a 10m depowerable foil?? I though foils were foils. How does that work? I bought a 4.4m skyfoil. It's a fixed line foil. They say that they will pull hard, but I haven't taken it out in strong winds yet. Will it pull like a 10m kite?
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Postby andyandmarlys » Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:12 am

Id say if you are still considering.... take a look at the 9m Crossbow. Benefits of both LEI and Foil, and a huge range. It would perfectly fit in your quiver...
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Postby Guest » Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:49 pm

The Blade is exceptionally strong. Depowerable foils generally pull less than non depowerable. It has a lot to do with aspect ratio, shape of the profile and angle of attack which is "hard coded" into the bridle. The high AR foils pull much stronger. Skyfoil I never tried. It looks much lower AR than a Blade, so I think it will be somewhere in the middle between the Frenzy and the Blade. I fly a Buster 4 (non depowerable low aspect) in 10-20MPH. Its too weak on the bottom range and maybe have a couple of more knots on top than what I use it for. It does generate power in 10MPH, enough to start moving on a mountain board on hard sand. 8 is the real bottom.

Blade 4.9 pulls like 10 inflateable? I have no idea, but people say that blade 10 pulls more than any huge LEI (20+) in ultra light winds. I guess you have to try and tell us, interesting to know.

Speaking of Venoms, Peter Lynns from earlier years are total b***c to relaunch. It looks like itís the same system but no first hand experience. Make sure you understand that and ask around. I sold an older arc just for that reason. In Tahoe the wind is turbulent and kites go down a lot, this made the arc virtually useless in those conditions.

Crossbow sounds good, but you will still be beating a tube on land.

Re: Venom 10

Postby sflinux » Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:26 am

My buddy has the V13 and loves it. Overall, if you are going to get an arc, I think the smaller sizes is where it is at. They are nice for gusty, powered up conditions. Venoms feel very much like leis but with the benefits of an arc.
In terms of relaunches, the new school arcs relaunch very well, equivalent to a 5 line system IMO. I've done some relaunches with these (g-arc) kites and it only took about 30 seconds to get the kite back up. Most of the time, these kites don't even end up in the water, unlike leis. And the auto zenith property is very cool.
My buddy and I still prefer lei's for the larger sizes, both him and I have 20+ M leis. IMO arcs don't perform well if there is not much wind. Lei's are more responsive in light winds, if you can keep them up. My buddy has a 20M lei, a 13M venom, standard, and short lines for his quiver.

Re: Foils, it's true, the depower comes from the bridle system. Something like a flysurfer has a A/B,C,D bridle system where both C (WAC) and D change when you sheet in and out to change the angle of attack of the kite. Other systems may only have a A,B,C and only the C changes, which is effectively your brakes. With these systems, the power is either on or off because the AoA is constant. I have a 5M tractor style 4 line constant AoA kite like this and it needs a fair amount of wind to get going 10 - 20 mph. Kites like these are great for light winds since there is either enough wind to keep them up (for their AoA), or there isn't. And the lighter the kite (bladdered lei > twinskin foil > single skin kite), the lower the bottom end will be. A single skin kite like an NPW can give good pull in 2+ mph winds. Kites with a constant AoA get their power from the kite's speed (how fast you fly it through the air). And high AR (less drag) kites will fly faster than low AR kites. And kites with a variable AoA you can adjust how fast they can fly through the air.
The crossbow is another one to consider. I just wonder how hard it is to keep these kites from relaunching in overpowered conditions. With arcs, when you throw the bar, the kite spills 100% of the wind and just lies flat (very safe). With a crossbow, it will continue to hold it's shape (like any lei). And in high winds, this makes me a little nervous. Flysurfers have a similar problem, when you throw the bar, they still continue to pull in overpowered conditions. You have to pull on one of the stearing lines to help spill wind when the kite is down.
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Postby Guest » Tue Aug 09, 2005 7:01 am

blades pull like crazy! Yes the blade 10.5 pulls like a 23m inflatable and packs up like a 6m.

Anyway, not the best choice for water maybe. I'd say the venom 13 would be a good choice or maybe the 10. AWESOME kites and not so different from an inflatable. launching and landing a bit different but not that hard at all. flysurfers are also a good choice.

I would say don't use an inflatable on land unless your in a pure grass or pure sand area with no way to damage the kite on small rocks etc and no gusty conditions. (gusty conditions are bad for all kites really though)

good luck,


Postby Guest » Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:29 pm

Yep, if any kite reached a mythical status it's the all mighty Blade. Not for water (event though some people insist).


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