ALAMEDA NEWBIES

[maxsteamer]

Hello GregB.,

Bra..I fought the law and the won...I fought the law and the lawWonnnnn.." :-({|= ](*,) :-" :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|=

[Greg]

Hello GregB.,

Bra..I fought the law and the won...I fought the law and the lawWonnnnn.." :-({|= ](*,) :-" :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|=

Max-
There are two major differances between then and now.
One- you were in the business.
Two- A new law is now in place to protect the parks from litigation from park users. (not sure if kiteboarding currently falls under that rule)

[maxsteamer]

Hello GregB.,

That law was voted in by them for them to protect them not you and I...they have to protect the parks system to keep it running for all that use it.. if you were teaching a friend to kite and they somehow succumed to the elements, they would not come after you.. they would come after the park system for letting you teach them on park property. then kiting would be over for sure and that would hurt all of us that live to kite here. I know you only want to share the stoke,but GregB. I think I speak for all that know you ..that no matter what you do kiters will be watching your every move as they know how hard you worked to keep it safe and fun for all.

Time for you to be that guy we all know as LMG on OH!!! do we love that guy!!! and to watch you kite by here rippin' downwind with a style we can only hope to frost the cake like that some day ???? I tell the kiters here at Shellgate launch as you rip by.if you want to ride waves you will have to learn to kite downwind just like that or you won't be wave ridin' any time soon.

Don't go there!!!! I already tryed, and they took the bread off my table.

[More Waves Please]

I've been kiting around the Bay since 1999, but I have never kited at Alameda, so I'm only guessing at the scene there. I do have a question - even if someone takes professional lessons, it wouldn't be out of the question for a more experienced buddy to assist that person until they're comfortable to be on their own. Where is the line between "teaching" and assisting? Is pre-flight check of kite rigging okay? How about assisted launch/hold-downs? How about dragging out a little ways from the beach to help the rookie get settled and on the board? What about following a newbie around to help them retrieve their board when they crash?

My wife took professional lessons on Maui a few years ago. When we got back to the Bay Area, she was intimidated by the cold water, waves and crowds. We went to less crowded spots a few times and went on a few bodydrags together until she was ready to go on her own. The first few times she tried to get on a board, I swam with her to help retrieve the board (no leash) when she lost it. I'm a very strong swimmer and routinely do mile+ workouts in the ocean, so swimming along with her while she crashed and re-started was pretty easy. This seemed reasonable and more responsible than just throwing her out there on her own. Was I teaching her? I guess so. She had all of the important safety, rigging, wind knowledge, etc. instruction from a pro, though.

[maxsteamer]

Hello MWP,

Not the same thing!!! There is a reason for this law?? I don't know if it is right or wrong?? but it is the law!! if you are giving pointers to a family member ?? I think your OK? if you helping a friend out in the water and the guy or gal got hurt ?? and your friend's family did not make a complaint to the EBRP system. then most likly there would not be a claim with the park system. On the other hand if there family went to the EBRP for help with Med bill's ect... then our access would be in question.. because in the end the claim would be paid by the home owners and or taxpayers and most of them feel we block there view to the skyline.. with that said this sport is so dangerous that if you need to give pointers to someone this is not the same as giving lessons. This would be giving directions like on a map.

[soupdumpling]

Saw a kiter get on their board in the dry sand today in the middle of the beach and dragged along the sand for several feet before getting to the water, with a woman and her small child about 10 feet away. Please use more common sense next time.

[Greg]

Hello MWP,

Not the same thing!!! There is a reason for this law?? I don't know if it is right or wrong?? but it is the law!! if you are giving pointers to a family member ?? I think your OK? if you helping a friend out in the water and the guy or gal got hurt ?? and your friend's family did not make a complaint to the EBRP system. then most likly there would not be a claim with the park system. On the other hand if there family went to the EBRP for help with Med bill's ect... then our access would be in question.. because in the end the claim would be paid by the home owners and or taxpayers and most of them feel we block there view to the skyline.. with that said this sport is so dangerous that if you need to give pointers to someone this is not the same as giving lessons. This would be giving directions like on a map.

Max-
Once and for all-
I'm going to get the information from the parks attorney so I can READ it myself....
After I read it I'll let you read it, OK-

Dont loose any sleep about loosing the beach- that is very unlikely. And the senerio you posted is quite unlikely also because both persons were kiters.. Now take out the women and kid that the last poster commented on and that might just do it-
Greg Boyington

[windhorny]

Sweet! I think that was actually me riding my board across the sand. I was in front of my house though not at the shack.

[More Waves Please]

OK, let's put it a different way - can I teach my 5 year old how to swim at Alameda? What if he's had professional lessons at the local pool, but I want him to practice at Alameda with me? Am I continuing to "teach" him, or am I simply assisting him in improving his skills? If my kid drowns, it's my fault, not the lifeguard, not the park, not the city.

If Greg wants to take his wife or son or mom or best friend for a bodydrag, who's calling the cops to have him ticketed or arrested? Sure, he's done some boneheaded things over the years (as we all have), but if Greg's not qualified to assist someone, who is? I guess if you've been kiting for 2 years, but you've taken an IKO certification class, you know way more than someone who's been kiting for 10 or 11 years and has seen anything and everything that can go wrong with a kite.

[Greg]

OK, let's put it a different way - can I teach my 5 year old how to swim at Alameda? What if he's had professional lessons at the local pool, but I want him to practice at Alameda with me? Am I continuing to "teach" him, or am I simply assisting him in improving his skills? If my kid drowns, it's my fault, not the lifeguard, not the park, not the city.

If Greg wants to take his wife or son or mom or best friend for a bodydrag, who's calling the cops to have him ticketed or arrested? Sure, he's done some boneheaded things over the years (as we all have), but if Greg's not qualified to assist someone, who is? I guess if you've been kiting for 2 years, but you've taken an IKO certification class, you know way more than someone who's been kiting for 10 or 11 years and has seen anything and everything that can go wrong with a kite.

This is a good example what I'm referring too....

TO BE CLEAR:
Regular kiters have been assisting each other "learn this sport" since it was invented... There have been MANY-MANY mistakes and minor injuries in doing so... It has always been a REALLY-REALLY GOOD IDEA to get qualified instruction BEFORE proceeding on your own.... The things you'll learn in your lesson (s) will help you in MANY WAYS, mostly it SHOULD give you a good idea how to proceed on your own or with a buddy.

Proper lessons are the JUST THE BEGINNING. After lessons the instructor should introduce you to the beach and give you a lay of the land, then it's about practice- practice- practice..

Alameda is the best spot to learn your early skills in the Bay- therefor it is MOST IMPORTANT everyone knows what they can and cannot do at Alameda.

BTW: THANKS for the props and expressing your viewpoint-
Greg