I just wanted to say a quick thank you to everyone on the upper launch help me get my friend under control today. I'm an experienced kiter, and he is an advanced beginner, but he was on a new (to him) kite with not a lot of throw, and that combined with the punchy wind and his body posture led to him getting launched towards the rocks at the upper landing.
He's totally fine - his feet are torn up a little but otherways he is fine with his confidence shaken a little.
Goes to show - I should have known - I thought the throw looked a little short and we should have lubed the QR.
Anyways, thanks to everyone who sat on him after he got launched and those who helped grab his kite.
Dangerous launching at 3rd
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naters1308
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The111
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Re: Dangerous launching at 3rd
@ above:
I was the third one to jump on him, I was trying to pull his QR since the other guys had his body but it was a weird system I'd never seen before and was not moving (props to whoever was smart enough and prepared enough to cut his lines, it honestly never crossed my mind). I am glad he did not make it to the rocks, and I hope the guy that climbed to the bike path to tackle the kite and got thrown around is ok.
That one took the cake, but I saw several other sketchy (underpowered or too-hot) launches in 5 minutes... including my own which had me a little too far downwind so my kite did the infamous backward drift but thankfully I still got it up smoothly. I could blame the weird wind angle or the gusts, but honestly I think it's just that I hadn't kited in 7 months, and lost the feel for exactly how much tension you should feel when the kite is in the sweet spot to launch. I saw one guy giving a thumb up to his helper for a VERY hot launch (the helper could barely hold onto the kite), and fortunately the helper said NO and sent me down to direct the guy where to stand and what to do. I saw the same guy earlier launch with one of his outside lines routed through the inner line and trying to say it was ok and he was going to use it like that, fortunately his launcher talked some sense into him (but ideally that should have been noticed when the lines got tensioned and the launch hadn't taken place yet).
For all the sketchy happenings, I saw positive and helpful responses to most of them (most notably the one mentioned in the post above). I think that's the best we can hope for. Stopping these types of things MORE proactively is obviously better, but unless there's a dedicated "launch-guard" who screens everybody, sketchy shit is always gonna happen when the experienced dudes nearby happen to have their heads turned.
I was the third one to jump on him, I was trying to pull his QR since the other guys had his body but it was a weird system I'd never seen before and was not moving (props to whoever was smart enough and prepared enough to cut his lines, it honestly never crossed my mind). I am glad he did not make it to the rocks, and I hope the guy that climbed to the bike path to tackle the kite and got thrown around is ok.
That one took the cake, but I saw several other sketchy (underpowered or too-hot) launches in 5 minutes... including my own which had me a little too far downwind so my kite did the infamous backward drift but thankfully I still got it up smoothly. I could blame the weird wind angle or the gusts, but honestly I think it's just that I hadn't kited in 7 months, and lost the feel for exactly how much tension you should feel when the kite is in the sweet spot to launch. I saw one guy giving a thumb up to his helper for a VERY hot launch (the helper could barely hold onto the kite), and fortunately the helper said NO and sent me down to direct the guy where to stand and what to do. I saw the same guy earlier launch with one of his outside lines routed through the inner line and trying to say it was ok and he was going to use it like that, fortunately his launcher talked some sense into him (but ideally that should have been noticed when the lines got tensioned and the launch hadn't taken place yet).
For all the sketchy happenings, I saw positive and helpful responses to most of them (most notably the one mentioned in the post above). I think that's the best we can hope for. Stopping these types of things MORE proactively is obviously better, but unless there's a dedicated "launch-guard" who screens everybody, sketchy shit is always gonna happen when the experienced dudes nearby happen to have their heads turned.
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naters1308
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Re: Dangerous launching at 3rd
Yes, it's a shitty QR - we're going to buy a new used bar (anyone get a nice 60CM they want to sell?) It was actually me so ended up cutting the lines - the kite looked like it was going to load-up again and I just said F-it and cut the lines. I keep my knife handy just for occassions like this. It's always on the front of my lifejacket.
There was another beginner at the very end of the night who was drifting all the way down to last chance beach or whatever it's called at 3rd... he was way past the the lower launch. He must have inverted his kite because when he finally got it out of the water it kept looping. It looks like he tried to flag it but couldn't or didn't know how
I remember when I learned at Alameda - it's a lot of long walks up the beach but man, it's a lot safer there than probably anywhere else unless you get Nat or Sandy at Sherman to teach you on a long downwinder. Remember - it's always cheaper to cut away a kite or QR versus the impact of getting dragged and ending up at the hospital - the ride alone to the ER will probably cost you more than a kite.
Anyways, back to the down kiter - it was great to see that he eventually pulled the QR and eject but I think the poor guy ended up losing his board and kite - not a great first day. With the W wind, the kite was drifting down towards the San Mateo Bridge and offshore - I called them to let them know that if they heard reports of a downed kite no need to launch S&R because the kiter was safe.
Word to the wise for beginners and everyone else - make sure you know how to self-rescue!
Have fun out there and be safe!
There was another beginner at the very end of the night who was drifting all the way down to last chance beach or whatever it's called at 3rd... he was way past the the lower launch. He must have inverted his kite because when he finally got it out of the water it kept looping. It looks like he tried to flag it but couldn't or didn't know how
I remember when I learned at Alameda - it's a lot of long walks up the beach but man, it's a lot safer there than probably anywhere else unless you get Nat or Sandy at Sherman to teach you on a long downwinder. Remember - it's always cheaper to cut away a kite or QR versus the impact of getting dragged and ending up at the hospital - the ride alone to the ER will probably cost you more than a kite.
Anyways, back to the down kiter - it was great to see that he eventually pulled the QR and eject but I think the poor guy ended up losing his board and kite - not a great first day. With the W wind, the kite was drifting down towards the San Mateo Bridge and offshore - I called them to let them know that if they heard reports of a downed kite no need to launch S&R because the kiter was safe.
Word to the wise for beginners and everyone else - make sure you know how to self-rescue!
Have fun out there and be safe!
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slava90@mac.com
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Re: Dangerous launching at 3rd
He lost his kite but I got his board. Unfortunately I lost mine while trying to help him - he had his kite sitting on the water for quite a while and I was swim-walking towards him, but then the kite powered up and the poor guy got dragged way out. Eventually he separated himself from the kite and swam back in...naters1308 wrote: Anyways, back to the down kiter - it was great to see that he eventually pulled the QR and eject but I think the poor guy ended up losing his board and kite - not a great first day. With the W wind, the kite was drifting down towards the San Mateo Bridge and offshore - I called them to let them know that if they heard reports of a downed kite no need to launch S&R because the kiter was safe.
Word to the wise for beginners and everyone else - make sure you know how to self-rescue!
Have fun out there and be safe!
Anyway, if anyone finds a blue Cabrinha board floating around in the bay, please check https://www.bayareakiteboarding.com/for ... f=6&t=9560
--juergen
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windhorny
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Re: Dangerous launching at 3rd
time to start wrapping the rocks with bubble wrap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2QPrOwk6RI[/video]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2QPrOwk6RI[/video]
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Greg
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Re: LAUNCHING KITERS
It's the responsibility of the KITER (about to BE launched) not the launcher to properly SET THE ANGLE of ATTACK prior to giving the thumbs up.
To properly set the "angle of attack" the KITER MOVES upwind or downwind in relation to the kite, the LAUNCHER IS SUPPOSED TO STAY IN PLACE-
To DETERMINE the PROPER LAUNCH ANGLE the KITES FOIL should be COMPLETELY FILLED WITH AIR- NOT LUFFING or JUMPING FORWARD into the wind!
This UNDERSTANDING (knowledge) SHOULD BE TAUGHT TO EVERYONE INVOLVED IN KITEBOARDING for it is the VERY FOUNDATION of airfoil aerodynamics.
Since kiteboarding involves NON RIDGED WINGS the proper angle of attack is VERY EASY TO DETERMINE, simply look for LUFFING and MOVE ACCORDINGLY to the WIND ANGLE.
It is IMPORTANT to REMEMBER the wind is NOT FIXED to ANY DIRECTION therefore it can CHANGE AT ANY TIME at EVERY LAUNCH- Sometimes the wind seems to be VERY GUSTY when in FACT it is SHIFTY (changing directions). Wind passing over land tends to be MORE GUSTY due to GROUND EFFECT and THERMALS. Ground effect is mostly TUMBLING AIR and feels like PULSES whereas "LOCAL" Thermal effect is LIFTING and LULLING. Ground effect is sometimes notable in ONSHORE CONDITIONS where the wind actually GOES ALLOFT instead of sticking close to the surface.
I suggest every kiter get SCHOOLED on WHAT MAKES YOUR WING WORK and LEARN ABOUT WEATHER PATTERNS for EVERY SITE you intend to use BEFORE KITING that location-
Personally- I WANT EVERYONE TO BE SAFE on and off shore.
NOTE: I'm NOT AN INSTRUCTOR and NEVER HAD INSTRUCTION (we could only learn from each other's mistakes when I started) therefore I will NEVER AGAIN LAUNCH KITERS that DONT DISPLAY an UNDERSTANDING of their equipment- (even if they took MULTIPLE PROFESSIONAL LESSONS, if they dont know- I WONT LET THEM GO) I WILL simply PUT DOWN THE KITE AND WALK AWAY!!!
SPECIAL NOTE: Also I WONT LAUNCH SEASONED KITERS that are UNRESPONSIBLE , SELFISH or ACT PLAIN STUPID ever again!!!!!! (they SHOULD be made to self launch/land I.M.H.O.)
Have FUN! :handgestures-thumbup:
Gregory Burton Boyington aka- L.M.G.
To properly set the "angle of attack" the KITER MOVES upwind or downwind in relation to the kite, the LAUNCHER IS SUPPOSED TO STAY IN PLACE-
To DETERMINE the PROPER LAUNCH ANGLE the KITES FOIL should be COMPLETELY FILLED WITH AIR- NOT LUFFING or JUMPING FORWARD into the wind!
This UNDERSTANDING (knowledge) SHOULD BE TAUGHT TO EVERYONE INVOLVED IN KITEBOARDING for it is the VERY FOUNDATION of airfoil aerodynamics.
Since kiteboarding involves NON RIDGED WINGS the proper angle of attack is VERY EASY TO DETERMINE, simply look for LUFFING and MOVE ACCORDINGLY to the WIND ANGLE.
It is IMPORTANT to REMEMBER the wind is NOT FIXED to ANY DIRECTION therefore it can CHANGE AT ANY TIME at EVERY LAUNCH- Sometimes the wind seems to be VERY GUSTY when in FACT it is SHIFTY (changing directions). Wind passing over land tends to be MORE GUSTY due to GROUND EFFECT and THERMALS. Ground effect is mostly TUMBLING AIR and feels like PULSES whereas "LOCAL" Thermal effect is LIFTING and LULLING. Ground effect is sometimes notable in ONSHORE CONDITIONS where the wind actually GOES ALLOFT instead of sticking close to the surface.
I suggest every kiter get SCHOOLED on WHAT MAKES YOUR WING WORK and LEARN ABOUT WEATHER PATTERNS for EVERY SITE you intend to use BEFORE KITING that location-
Personally- I WANT EVERYONE TO BE SAFE on and off shore.
NOTE: I'm NOT AN INSTRUCTOR and NEVER HAD INSTRUCTION (we could only learn from each other's mistakes when I started) therefore I will NEVER AGAIN LAUNCH KITERS that DONT DISPLAY an UNDERSTANDING of their equipment- (even if they took MULTIPLE PROFESSIONAL LESSONS, if they dont know- I WONT LET THEM GO) I WILL simply PUT DOWN THE KITE AND WALK AWAY!!!
SPECIAL NOTE: Also I WONT LAUNCH SEASONED KITERS that are UNRESPONSIBLE , SELFISH or ACT PLAIN STUPID ever again!!!!!! (they SHOULD be made to self launch/land I.M.H.O.)
Have FUN! :handgestures-thumbup:
Gregory Burton Boyington aka- L.M.G.
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OliverG
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Re: Dangerous launching at 3rd
Very well and clearly stated Greg, thanks for taking the time to write that up. If you don't mind, I think it's worth posting in the Beginner Resources Section for reference.
https://www.bayareakiteboarding.com/for ... m.php?f=20
https://www.bayareakiteboarding.com/for ... m.php?f=20
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shred_da_gorge
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Re: Dangerous launching at 3rd
Greg, very well put. Unfortunately I've already had to explain that to more kiters than times I've been out yet this season.
If your launcher is struggling to hold onto your kite, take it as a really big hint you're in the wrong position - not the launcher.
If your launcher is struggling to hold onto your kite, take it as a really big hint you're in the wrong position - not the launcher.
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Greg
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Re: Dangerous launching at 3rd
If you think it may be helpful beyond this point, you have my BLESSING-BayAreaKite wrote:Very well and clearly stated Greg, thanks for taking the time to write that up. If you don't mind, I think it's worth posting in the Beginner Resources Section for reference.
https://www.bayareakiteboarding.com/for ... m.php?f=20
L.M.G. O:)
BTW: Thanks for the support, I hope I don't come across as an ASSHOLE to anyone trying to learn, sometimes you simply HAVE TO SAY "NO, I'm sorry, your not ready for this"-
Gregory Burton Boyington
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Greg
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Re: Dangerous launching at 3rd
Thankfully I've still got enough hair to cover all the scar's on my head.windhorny wrote:time to start wrapping the rocks with bubble wrap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2QPrOwk6RI[/video]
Sad, though- there's NO CURE for STUPID-
I'm TRUELY LUCKY after all I've put this poor body through that I can even walk/talk.
Dont be a DUMB FUCK, wear a helmet-
Yuri- you're TWISTED!!! =D> =D> =D>
L.M.G.
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