Interesting thread on Bow Kites in general

OliverG · Post by **OliverG** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:12 pm

There's an interesting thread on bow kites in general, which for the most part is not brand-specific and sheds a little light on some of the differences and techniques involved in adopting a new paradigm and approach to flying these kites. I'm not dialed in on bow kites yet and this info seems to be helpful to know. So far I've done everything on the bow kites same as I would on a C-kite, and it could be that a little adjustment or re-training of sorts might deliver a lot of benefit with these new styles of kites.

Check it out:

http://windwing.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=743&PN=1

andyandmarlys · Post by **andyandmarlys** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:54 pm

Another bow just arrived... Besides the switchblade and crossbow, slingshot's turbo diesel just arrived at the shop. A bit cheaper than the crossbow at $1449 for a 12m. Has one pump, dacron leading edge, and a power locking mechanism on the bar. Hopefully I'll get to take one with me to Baja when I go next week to give it a full test.

Andy

elli · Post by **elli** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:15 pm

Many people said the bows fly like foils. What I normally do in a foil is sheet half way in, sine and start moving. Once you move you can park on the edge and sheet in. This is mostly the case with the low aspect foils.

Also you sometimes need to sheet out a little to go upwind faster and in higher angle. This is probably because both bows and foils have greater depower than C kites, so its much easier to get overpowered by pulling in the bar.

Pablito · Post by **Pablito** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:32 pm

Elli,
After my first day snowkiting on the FS Voodoo and Ozone Frenzy, I found the whole depower foil thing to be very difficult to get the hang of. In many ways, flying the foils is essentially the reverse of flying an LEI. In fact, learning to depower the bar in order to get the kite going in lower wind was positively infuriating. IN order to keep the kite from collapsing, I would have to push the bar all the way out, but in that position it is extremely difficult to sine the kite to create wind.

I've read so much about these kites being great in light wind, but I found myself wishing I had a good old LEI so I could crank it up and get moving. Plus, the sight of the kite plummeting out of the sky when overpowered is vaguely terrifying. The only thing good about it was how easy it was to relaunch, but then, if I had been flying an LEI it wouldn't have fallen in the first place.

If the bow kites fly like foils, then everyone's got a big learning curve coming.

Pablito · Post by **Pablito** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:44 pm

By the way, my single experience flying a bow kite (Rapture) was nothing like flying my foils. While it was necessary to sine the kite to get going, as the WW thread mentions, it is extremely easy and fast to turn the Rapture2 (with a CC bar, anyway) while with my Ozone and FS foils, it feels like the lines are made out of spaghetti. There is no pressure at all and very slow response to the bar.

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:14 am

My only time using a Cross Bow the kite seemed like a fairly straight forward crossover. Actually it seemed like a normal kite, but I did learn on foils... Then again when I swiched to an inflatable that was a snap also. The first time I tryed an infaltable I thought that you guys had been cheating it was so easy. My one and only time on a S.L.E. kite so far left me with only one negitive impresson, ALL MOST NO FEEL IN THE TURNING! The turning seemed sloppy while the kite turned fast leaving with this nagging need to keep checking the kite which I never do with a normal inflatable. This seemed to me to be very undirable charteristic for a kite that is touted as great in the waves. When I'm in the waves the LAST thing I want to do is look at my kite.... I'm sure my "feel" would get better with time. I cant read brail either- but some people can. (I guess being blind helps)
As I recall, the foils (at least mine) pulled harder and sat back further in the window but were super easy to fly. The only thing I had a real hard time with was going up wind (the dame things pulled like a truck). I think I never got further then holding my ground (and that is still debated by some) Actually, I taught myself to kite on an Advance I.O. by getting it flying, stepping on a surf board (no strapes) and riding to the end of the beach (1.5 miles), zig-zagging all the way (always riding GOOFY, just like me).
I really dont get the big deal, but then again I dont get all kinds of stuff! Perhaps I really am retarded...,
L.M.G. :^o

charlie · Post by **charlie** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:26 am

maybe when you get back,ollie can let you demo the new rapture2!

OliverG · Post by **OliverG** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:17 am

Well, I believe Naish is coming out with a bow kite also, but check out this guys story from the WW forum. The only reason I mention it is because some of these kites really seem to be changing the way people are thinking, *but* not without some adjustment or overcoming preconceived notions. I'm just bummed because recent conditions have seriously limited my ability to spend more time on the Rap2.
[hr]

En-Raptured...

So as a long time WindWing windsurfer sail supporter I was one of the first guys to preorder the Rapture II. The Synthesis sails I used were bombproof and excellent performers. I surmised that similar charasteristics could be expected of the WindWing kites and with the buzz about bow kites I was psyched about the Rapture II's. I figured that it would be better to go for a 3rd generation flat kite than the first gen XBows (I flew the 12m and hated the bar pressure).

A friend and I preordered the Rapture II's. The story from there though takes a momentary dip. WindWings handling of the Rapture II production and delivery was not satisfactory. After having our credit cards charged for very close to a month and coupled with many unfulfilled promises of delivery we decided to cancel the order since we were concerned about the level of service we might get if we had any product/warranty related issues.

After all this I still received the kite!

And now for the silver lining...

Today at the beach I'm styling on my 12m Naish Raven (05). The wind is fairly gusty, our local wind reporting service measuring 16 knots to 25 knots with an avg of close to 20 knots. I had brought the 6.5 Rap II along so that my wife could fly it. Setting it up for the "high" wind settings I pump it up and put it in the air. I fly it around for a few minutes and then figure, "Hey if I put it on the low wind settings perhaps I can actually kite with this?". I weigh 210 pounds so this notion is a little outrageous but hey what the heck. I change the settings, grab my Thorn 141 and set out. Holy cow - I cannot believe the grunt and speed of this little kite. It moves so fast that you can generate immense apparent wind and this coupled with being fully sheeted in gets me planning immediately. Admittedly the Thorn 141 is a big wide board but I'm totally surprised at this point. After about 10 minutes I'm comfortable enough to make a few jumps. Nothing to high but hey this is only a tad over 20 knots, I'm NOT a lightweight and this is a 6.5!! As for the bar pressure - what bar pressure?

One of my friends was underpowered on his '06 Rhino 10m and here I am styling away. In the lulls I just cycle the kite once or twice and I'm back on the plane. After a great session on the 6.5 I went back to my Raven 12m for another hour or so. The bottom line here is that we are not talking about nuclear winds here. After all if I could hold my own on a 12m Raven, which has plenty of low end, then it's outrageous that I was planing on the 6.5 Rap II !

I know many people take reviews of new kites with a pinch of salt because of the "loving the kite you bought" syndrome, but bear in mind the following:

1) I bought the 6.5m Rap II for my wife - I like the total depower/safety notion for her

2) I had orginally ordered the 12m for myself and the 6.5 for my wife

3) After I cancelled the original Rap II order I upgraded my 05 Torches to 06 Torch II's (a 10m & 14m) - mucho denarri. I'm heavily invested in the Naish camp and I have been a Naish head for a while (about 7 Naish kites including the latest 2 Torches).

Based on the above, and considering my earlier dissatisfaction you can guess how good the Rap II is if it has persuaded me to sell my brand new Torches and put in a new order for Rap II's.

Admittedly this post is somewhat of a backhanded compliment to WindWing but I thought the tale should be told with full disclosure. The Rapture II is truly an amazing kite. My devotion has found a new home.

Sander · Post by **Sander** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:04 pm

That's a cool story about the 210 lb guy planing on a 6.5 Rapture II in 20 knots. That's about the same size as he would need for a windsurf sail. Makes me appreciate how far kite design has come, because I have been using as a general rule to multiply x2 the size windsurf sail I would use to come up with the size kite to rig (ie rig a 12 m kite if I would be using a 6m sail).
I had been considering getting a 12m Rapture II as my all around kite and now I'm thinking maybe I could get away with something smaller...

charlie · Post by **charlie** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:39 pm

dude that 12m rapture2 will go along way .

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Interesting thread on Bow Kites in general

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