Crissy...trouble in paradise

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Re: Crissy...trouble in paradise

Postby rowboat » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:39 am

Kops suck and nobody wants to be one, BUT you know what - civilization evolved from anarchy when someone took it upon themselves to risk being perceived as as little bit uncool and pose the question "have you thought about what that the fuck you're about to do?" in an adult, civilized manner.

I just read the windsurfers thread and the contrast in opinion is remarkable:

"Just because a kite took out the wind sensor does not mean the kiter did anything wrong, or was a rookie (even if in this case, he was)... ...How was anyone supposed to know that he shouldn't be kiting there?"

vs "...Are you telling me that AFTER knocking out our precious sensor this guy went out into the Bay?? AND then required a rescue after that? Who is this guy because he should be banned from ever launching at Crissy again!"

I don't fully agree with either but wtf happened to a bit of humility and a good dose of personal responsibility? Wherever we ride we have a responsibility to not endanger others, public property, or ourselves to the point of getting our ass in a sling (too often). If you choose to behave otherwise, you're acting like a kid, and don't be surprised if some adults make some rules to govern your behavior.

I don't want to be a cop either, but I do think it's time we stopped pussy-footing around with kooks who seem bound to fuck up Crissy for everyone before long. The tide test suggested by @tgautier above is a good one. When a stranger in the parking lot asks me "how is it out there?" my stock answer is "super sketchy, don't go out," unless they demonstrate some real knowledge of the spot. When someone like the Fuel dude who took out the sensor just straight rigs up and walks out to launch without a word to anyone, it basically requires someone to intercept and have a word with Fuel while he's trying to sneak out to launch. That feels like being a cop, but how did we get people to stop littering, leaving dogshit on the sidewalk, or for that matter jacking up tourists for a few spare bucks?

Peer pressure... Civilization. I for one will try to be more diligent and if I see Fuel et al in the future and it occurs to me to have a word, I will do so.
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Re: Crissy...trouble in paradise

Postby Tony Soprano » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:19 pm

Hello this is a posting taken from the iwindsurf forum:

The SFBA represents kiters as well as windsurfers, and has two kiters on our board to help. But we are also struggling as to how to establish an outreach and safety education program that would reach the new users and those who want to do tricks. Nothing wrong with being new, nothing wrong with tricks, the issue is how to do it safely. It would be nice to see a contingent of Crissy kiters at the next SFBA meeting, July 16 at the St. Francis at 7:30 to help figure this out.

Here is why. Crissy is a National Park, and under the control, from the landside, of the Federal Park service. Both the State and the Federal government have an ownership interest in the water, and generally it is available for all users. But the Feds can establish, by regulations, restrictions on both the land and the water that will make access to the water more difficult. SFBA has, for nearly thirty years, persuaded them that a voluntary approach with education is superior. So far we have been successful. I'm not as much worried about a broken sensor as I am about an injury to a non kiter on the beach.

We have heard pretty clearly from the Coast Guard that we need to work harder at educating SUP users and kiters about the rules of the road and about the ability to self-rescue. Any constructive user is welcome at the next SFBA meeting to help figure out how to do that.
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Re: Crissy...trouble in paradise

Postby friggin old guy » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:48 pm

It's interesting to note that the windsurfers have complaints about kiters not knowing or adhering to right of way protocol.

Anybody that is reading this forum and who doesn't know port from starboard and who doesn't have those rules down really has no business being out at Crissy, let alone anyplace else. These are basic rules. I have to say that most of the time kiting I don't have as many issues as I used to windsurfing with people forcing right of way, but maybe that's because kiters tend to give each other a bit more space because of the kites. Sometimes windsurfers seem to play with each other as to who can outpoint who instead of the starboard guy just sticking to his chosen course.

I think any signage should emphasize importance of knowing right of way, awareness of what the tide's doing and should be recommended for expert kiters only.

I windsurfed Crissy on a regular basis for 20 years. I swam my rig in from Anita Rock more times than I can remember, and I always made damned sure I was coming in before the flood started so I wouldn't get pushed into the bay if I did have to swim. I've been kiting now for going on 10 years, and I'm still pretty circumspect about going out there, not because of any concerns about my proficiency or ability to handle it if something goes down, but simply because I know that inside area around Anita Rock is almost always flukey as all get out.

It is NOT a place for people that don't know what they're doing for all kinds of reasons.

The windsurfers have a built in propensity to slam kiters.....it seems difficult for some of them to figure out which kiters have total control and which don't. My guess is that the flukey conditions at the launch and out to the Rock have a lot to do with that, and again more reasons for folks that don't have the skill set to just go someplace else.

"Don't kite further that you can swim"......hard to do at Crissy, since that area inside the Rock is often swirly, gusty and weird. Really not the place for a TT, in my opinion, and perhaps the signage should indicate that preference is given to boards that have enough flotation to survive long tidal floats.........
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Re: Crissy...trouble in paradise

Postby Aloha » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:05 am

A question to extend on John's point - How comfortable would you be fending for yourself on a twin-tip in the event of a breakdown if the coast guard wasn't there to pick you up?
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Re: Crissy...trouble in paradise

Postby kitedancer » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:22 am

...
Last edited by kitedancer on Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crissy...trouble in paradise

Postby reyrivera » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:39 am

Kiteboarders are considered sailing vessels right?
Here's an online course that people can review and even take the examination for free if you don't care about certification:
http://www.boaterexam.com/usa/california/

I find this resource helpful, gave me better understanding of all the navigational signs littered around the East Bay. It's just like taking a DMV driver's license test.

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Re: Crissy...trouble in paradise

Postby shred_da_gorge » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:42 am

friggin old guy wrote:Anybody that is reading this forum and who doesn't know port from starboard and who doesn't have those rules down really has no business being out at Crissy, let alone anyplace else. These are basic rules.

This is a good point, but when I took kiteboarding lessons a decade ago the curriculum was "here's how to self-rescue, here's how to waterstart, here's how to turn around." I learned the aforementioned 'basic' rules by osmosis over decades of windsurfing, not in any formal education, and unfortunately I have as much expectation that a new kiter would know them as I do around drivers who don't understand why I ride my bicycle (legally) in the middle of 'their' lane on select occasions. There are many educational platforms that could surely benefit by broadening what's taught beyond basic skills necessary.

friggin old guy wrote:.....it seems difficult for some of them to figure out which kiters have total control and which don't.

I have a hard time figuring this out as well! Another protocol/courtesy I've learned through osmosis is that when passing closely the upwind kiter should raise his/her kite and the downwind kiter lower theirs (it allows closer passing). I can't tell you how many times at 3rd I've had kiters force me further downwind because they're broad reaching on starboard with the kite low. These I also consider 'basic' rules and they've been discussed in years past on this forum, but since they are not taught in kiteboarding schools I don't expect new kiters to know them. (It does make me think that a kiter does not have "total control" though).
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Re: Crissy...trouble in paradise

Postby rowboat » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:28 pm

@shred_da_gorge def agree -- there's no reason to assume that kiters (or windsurfers, for that matter) know port/starboard RoW rules. RoW is learned by sailors and racers, and maybe I guess if you take an IKO course or something, but nobody mentioned such things to me when I was learning to kite.
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Re: Crissy...trouble in paradise

Postby acctx » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:34 pm

Im an ex windsurfer and my experience is that windsurfers rarely give right of way either. It is like a big game of chicken and whoever thinks that they can point upwind more takes the tack. I usually give it up, but sometimes Im trying to get to shore to land and have been trying multiple times with people coming out forcing me downwind by ignoring right of way rules, at that point I will force my right of way.
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Re: Crissy...trouble in paradise

Postby NCKite_Ryder » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:28 pm

I don't just jump windsurfers I jump newb kiters also! ROW is situational. :think:
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