Wave etiquette?

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Re: Wave etiquette?

Postby le noun » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:56 am

Bulldog wrote:However, well-established locals will do it fairly frequently when they don't recognize the inbound rider or don't think they have to skill to shred the wave.


:shock:
Don't get me wrong, I don't ride waves so I'm usually having fun with my TT downwind of the rotation at waddell. BUT SERIOUSLY? A local has the right to cut somebody off because he doesn't recognize him/her or because HE THINKS YOU DON'T HAVE THE SKILLS?!

If anything, I feel like a local should be the friendly persone at the beach, helping you out with the way of the land if it's your first time at the spot.
Local usually means you're there quite frequently (either way because you live right next to the spot OR because your work schedule permits it OR both the above) therefor you catch way more waves at the spot than people who can only ride once a week or less. Why (instead of cutting people off because you think you own the beach and the break) wouldn't you let people and especially non-locals have fun at your spot? Think about it, they work all week so they can finally (weather permitting) have fun for a couple hours on the weekend when the "locals" get to ride it everyday.

Anyway, I haven't ran into this kind of persone yet, but if one day i get cut off on the water AND the guy has the nerves to come and see me later on the beach to tell me he's a local and therefor no rights of way applies to him and he can do whatever he wants and I should just stay clear of his line, then I might lose my temper. :)
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Re: Wave etiquette?

Postby amlerner » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:48 pm

zgur wrote:...yes, you have a directional, your kite game has improved...and the coast is going and you need to kite....now take a deep breath....


Haha...that's me.

This whole conversation freaks me out about hitting the waves. It feels like a big step moving into the surf without worrying about locals and pros running me off a wave or slashing my tires. I thought surfers and kiters were chill?
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Re: Wave etiquette?

Postby friggin old guy » Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:02 pm

You will get burned. It's a fact of life. Everybody gets burned now and then. How you deal with it is up to you.

I mentioned previously my three wave rule. I generally don't get aggravated unless somebody burns me repeatedly on the same day, and then I feel like I just have to say something.

It's unfortunate that some folks feel like they have to lift their leg and pee all over you to establish dominance but not being too quick to offense is part of being a visitor at any spot. Most kiters are very chill so if you don't get in the way and just be chill yourself its all good.

But you should know what you're doing and how the basics work so misunderstandings do not arise. Bring beer in case misunderstandings do arise. Great peace pipe.
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Re: Wave etiquette?

Postby WindMuch » Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:48 pm

The difference here is the surf mentality.

After paddle surfing for 35 years and living on the Great Hwy (Ocean Beach) for 12 of those years, I know it's hard for kiters to understand the ugly concept of localism. Wind is plentiful. Waves, not so much.

Localism comes from nothing but greed and selfishness. Waves are a finite resource and the more you get, the more you want. It's a never-ending desire for more and many (not all, thanks to guys like FOG) wave junkies begin to feel some amount of 'ownership' after they've ridden a spot for some invisible amount of time. In some cases, it doesn't even seem to matter where the individual actually lives. There is no logic and little intelligence in this surf localism mentality - don't try to make sense of it.

In my experience you can't really fight localism but it can be DILUTED. It's hard for the "locals" to win when they're outnumbered by a bunch of "kooks" who don't live in the right place or the line up is littered when the locals "don't recognize the inbound rider or don't think they have to skill to shred the wave."

Bulldog wrote:There is no clash of philosophies at the Norcal wave spots.


To me, it appears that there's a significant clash of philosophies in the video that started this thread...
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Re: Wave etiquette?

Postby behindThePeak » Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:58 pm

friggin old guy wrote:I mentioned previously my three wave rule. I generally don't get aggravated unless somebody burns me repeatedly on the same day, and then I feel like I just have to say something.


+1

the issue, just like surfing, is that nobody really agrees on the rules. it may seam like they agree, and some may think they agree, but there are as many different interpretations as there are individuals and moods.

here's an example: let's say you paddle out at Waddell on a windless day to surf. there's a well defined a-frame at work and all the waves are breaking at the same spot. you sit 10 feet south of the peak so you can jump on the wave where the shoulder is rounder and easier to stand up on. eventually some dude with more skill will paddle past you and sit right in the peak so he can take the most advantage of each wave he rides. did he snake you? or are you simply sitting in the wrong spot? either could be true. if he likes taking off deep why should he have to wait in line behind you just because you can't handle the peak. likewise if you don't like the steep section why should you have to surf outside your comfort zone? in a perfect world the two of you would still take turns and surf the wave how you like; but add a few more people each with different preferences and ability to read the waves and it quickly becomes impossible to keep track.

if you pull out localization and assume everyone has the best of intentions you still have conflict. it usually boils down to two different value systems: those that value skill will say that you have to earn your way into the pack, if you can't take off in (or better yet: behind :::) ) the peak no one will defer to you and you must pick up the scraps until you're good enough to hang and earn your place in the rotation. this makes sense as it rewards those who have put a lot of time and energy into the sport; but newbies and part-timers will find it unfair. those that value equity will say that everyone should take turns no matter what they do with the wave. this makes sense too as it really is the most equitable option but it means a lot of good waves go wasted; which drives those who could have ridden them crazy.

granted: these are extremes; but every surf break around the world will function at some point on the continuum between these two extremes.... with a lot of messy human emotions mixed in. each spot is different; this is why traveling surfers must be able to read a crowd as well as they can read waves in order to paddle out at new spots and surf with success.

it seems to me that as the sport becomes more popular kite-surfing is running into the same issue: those who value skill won't have the patience for that long tack out to the kelp to track a swell back to the reef. and those who value equity will be frustrated with every short-tacker that grabbed some section of their wave that they had ignored.

at the end of the day, you have to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. like FOG says, repeat offences are the true problem. slighting people is tough to avoid, but if you notice their response then acknowledge and adjust, you can avoid slighting them again and that's what's key.

It's not that you should deffer to the local, it's that you should defer to the local's interpretation of the rules. because that's likely the most common rule set at that spot and adopting it is your best chance of working well with that pack.
Last edited by behindThePeak on Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Wave etiquette?

Postby yojimbo » Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:06 pm

Great thread. One of my fav surf vids, in the latter part you see what happens in the line up. Its semi-controlled chaos bordering on a free-for-all:

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Re: Wave etiquette?

Postby Blackbird » Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:57 pm

My rendition, in the eyes of the local:

"Oh yeah, it's on baby. The swell is stacking, the wind is solid 9m, and I've got my favorite camera mule to get super sweet action shots so I can feel awesome later! My sponsors are going to love me, and I know this place like wiping my own ass.

Ahhh, the love of getting to my local kite surf spot. Double O waves rolling in great sets. On the water, feel the love. Smack! One lip destroyed. Smack! Another. Look at me! The camera is rolling, and I am feeling alive!

Wait, whoooaaaa! What the? Who's this joker on my wave? Doesn't he know who I am? What? Some lame ass comment? Whatever, this dude is useless. He's in my way and giving attitude. Well @#%# him. Doesn't he know I grew up in the kelp beds off the point? Can't he smell my Anemone aftershave? Come on! I've been sacrificing small children at this beach for years to keep the sharks well fed. Obviously he doesn't recognize my local flavor. I'm just going to have to teach him a lesson. These are my waves. I cried them out of my tear ducts this morning just to have a go on them. This dude should feel lucky I am letting him have any waves at all.

Yeah, that's right. I'm all over you biiaaatch. No more waves for you. So what if I short tacked you. This H2O is mine. I'm going to vent to my sheep on the beach and really get your name hosed in the community. That's right, people listen to me, no matter what side of the fence I'm playing.

Oh, wait, there's a ranger. He'll listen. He knows me. The ranger will back me up, and I'll get him to ticket his car for some bullshit cause while I let the air out of his tires, break his windshield wipers, and mess him up."

Ranger: "You want what? What the @#$@# is wrong with you. This is PUBLIC LAND for the USE OF THE PUBLIC. EVERYONE PAYS IN, EVERYONE GETS PAYOUT. You want to whine like a baby in your self righteous indignation over some spilt milk from your fragile ego, then go wipe your tears in the headless seal carcass for all I care."

PS: Just be polite, follow Z's etiquette, and don't let the jerks take you down a notch.
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Re: Wave etiquette?

Postby Bulldog » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:33 pm

BPE (Best Post Ever)!

Luckily it appears that this spring will be so amazingly epic for kiting on the Norcal coast that there will be abundant wind AND waves for all kitesurfers, locals and tourists alike.

We will all be singing the Kumbaya of shredded legs and exhausted smiles. KK(( KK(( KK((
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Re: Wave etiquette?

Postby Aloha » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:37 pm

WindMuch wrote:To me, it appears that there's a significant clash of philosophies in the video that started this thread...


Kirk that's kind of where I was going with it

It seemed like both of them were looking at the other like: "Who is this kook and what does he think he's doing on my wave?"

:]
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Re: Wave etiquette?

Postby mbzporvida » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:42 pm

How do you become a "local" ?

Perception is a strange thing.

:mrgreen:
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