Alameda Ban?

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Postby Kies » Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:18 pm

I am very good friends with the guy who paid to have 30 lifegaurds in orange county trained by Chuck P on kiting. The idea was to familiarize the lifeguards in the sport and be better equiped to access the dangers and when and where they are. The reason the beach was opened back up to them was more about the other rules he put in place.

No kiter within X number of yards of a surfer...period
No Kites in air between certain land marks (Guard Stands)
No kiting in certain areas.
Launching only at certain areas.
No kiting between certain hours during certain months (Basically banning kiting ina populated summer spot during the 9-6 time frame. You simply moved up the coast those hours in summer)

We can enforce things at Alameda like:
Launch in Launch area 1 kite at a time.
Incoming kite down and stable before launching kite goes up.
Down wind of a certain point. Kite comes down, and goes into your hands...NO walking up beach with kite in the air.
Post a sign warning,danger to sunbathers in launch area.

Actually, I could care less any more. I go to Sherman, Bethel Island with a boat or the coast nowadays. The bay is so contaminated and the wind sucks, your drinking JET fuel.
Except on days like today when I am working at the Beer booth at the Marin fair...come by for a cold brew leave the crowds at the beach and hear some tunes.
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Postby Guest » Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:36 pm

This respone was supposed to be on another thread, it does not blong here. My mistake.

Something that comes out in this story, which I have seen many many times, is that beginners don't go for the QR when the shit hits the fan.

I have no idea why. My sense (and I may be wrong) is that in teaching it is not emphasized enough that you should actually go for the QR on the slightest doubt, and also not practiced enough. I am thinking along the lines of diving lessons.

In things I did, using the safety is part of the training and you train until it is an instinct without thinking too much. It seems that this does not happen in kite boarding. I have seen so many people try to fly the kite when they should just throw the bar or use whatever safety they have.

Using the QR saved my a$$ more than once (though never on the water). I was so impressed with it, that I bought a newer model without much data, based mostly on the fact that it has the same safety system (flysurfer). I think the gear has something to do with your confidence on using the QR, but at the end of the day all kites have some form or another that kills the power, so the gear is hardly ever an excuse.

I don't think beginners that fly their kites for the first times even test their QR before going on the water. At least I havenít seen it done, which seems almost ridiculous. Every session I had on a mountain board I throw the bar to kill the kite at least once or twice in the beginning, just to refresh my memory and see how the kite depowers in the current wind conditions. On the water its not that simple because the launch areas are usually very tight, but still, using the QR the first time when you are actually in an emergency does not make much sense to me.
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Postby andyandmarlys » Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:15 am

Anonymous wrote:This respone was supposed to be on another thread, it does not blong here. My mistake.

Something that comes out in this story, which I have seen many many times, is that beginners don't go for the QR when the shit hits the fan.

I have no idea why. My sense (and I may be wrong) is that in teaching it is not emphasized enough that you should actually go for the QR on the slightest doubt, and also not practiced enough. I am thinking along the lines of diving lessons.

In things I did, using the safety is part of the training and you train until it is an instinct without thinking too much. It seems that this does not happen in kite boarding. I have seen so many people try to fly the kite when they should just throw the bar or use whatever safety they have.

Using the QR saved my a$$ more than once (though never on the water). I was so impressed with it, that I bought a newer model without much data, based mostly on the fact that it has the same safety system (flysurfer). I think the gear has something to do with your confidence on using the QR, but at the end of the day all kites have some form or another that kills the power, so the gear is hardly ever an excuse.

I don't think beginners that fly their kites for the first times even test their QR before going on the water. At least I havenít seen it done, which seems almost ridiculous. Every session I had on a mountain board I throw the bar to kill the kite at least once or twice in the beginning, just to refresh my memory and see how the kite depowers in the current wind conditions. On the water its not that simple because the launch areas are usually very tight, but still, using the QR the first time when you are actually in an emergency does not make much sense to me.
I am not sure which thread you are talking about, but I want to clarify QUICK RELEASE VS DEPOWER/SAFETY.

I think we are talking about the same thing, but it is not a good idea to actually release the kite in all but a few situations. That is, don't let the kite go on its own/eject/separate you from the kite unless you are going to DIE and no one else downwind is in danger..

Instead, depower your kite with whatever system you have... be it a 5th line, recon, or the traditional side leash.... Just don't release the kite so it tumbles down the beach, which I have seen several times in alameda.
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Postby kite-o-matik » Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:54 am

I mentioned this to Rebecca yesterday (god, I'm such a suck-up) but for everyone's benefit: proactive engagement with the powers-that-be is more productive than reacting to some incident and trying to justify our continued beach access. We need to be in communication & have relationships with people like alameda's park supervisor before the shit hits the fan.

That's why we're so lucky to have Rebecca already engaged in dialogue with the park supervisor -- the park supervisor has someone to bring complaints/concerns to without issuing a blanket ban, and we have a channel through which we can hear those complaints and respond. If we're seen as responsive to their concerns, and we're being proactive about safety, outright bans are much less likely.

You know that old saying, how forgiveness is easier to get than permission? Not here.

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Postby Guest » Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:19 am

I am not sure which thread you are talking about, but I want to clarify QUICK RELEASE VS DEPOWER/SAFETY.

I think we are talking about the same thing, but it is not a good idea to actually release the kite in all but a few situations. That is, don't let the kite go on its own/eject/separate you from the kite unless you are going to DIE and no one else downwind is in danger..

Instead, depower your kite with whatever system you have... be it a 5th line, recon, or the traditional side leash.... Just don't release the kite so it tumbles down the beach, which I have seen several times in alameda.

Yes I am taking about a leash, recon, SAFE, 5th line or whatever QR you have the keeps the kite connected to your harness. I guess terminology is localized. Today systems like SAFE actually don't have a QR lever as I understand, it all on the bar, so maybe the term is not appropriate any more.

Yes, its not a good idea to disconnect the kite from you, especially on the beach.
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Postby Bob » Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:12 pm

Drove by Crown beach today (Fourth of July) and several low skilled kiters were sweeping kites over the crowded Forth of July beach...Right at waters edges... Four miles of water on one side and a kiting ban on the other and peacocks are strutting for a ban...

AS for teaching safety and quick release my students get a large dose of it. The basic mantra is - every time - before you pick up your bar to launch, review your safety options mentally. Once its in the air touch your safety releases. As you come into the beach to land touch all your safety options and bring them into the forefront of your mind.
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Postby Guest » Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:54 am

was a circus at alameda yesterday.......3 experienced guys out back when I got there. I had a good hour...way out back, down wind on the point......

when I got back to the shack, loads of people rigging up......out of just the ones I helped:

first one only had four out of five lines attatched when he asked me to launch him, one of the back lines was disconnected.

second one had front and back lines the wrong way round.

third one had left side front and back lines twisted multiple times.

I approached 2 guys who were in the shallows, who kept insisting on holding the bar upside down causing "death sweeps" over kids swimming close in.

I saw multiple "close calls" of people launching on the beach without doing simple things like checking whether there was another kite behind them.....(despite much shouting by the more experienced of us there).

I went home in the end.....too @#$%^ dangerous. I had 2 members of the public come up to me and ask if it was all as dangerous as it looked and observing that people didn't look like they knew what they were doing.
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Postby OliverG » Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:09 am

Anonymous wrote:was a circus at alameda yesterday.......

first one only had four out of five lines attatched when he asked me to launch him, one of the back lines was disconnected.

second one had front and back lines the wrong way round.

third one had left side front and back lines twisted multiple times.

I approached 2 guys who were in the shallows, who kept insisting on holding the bar upside down causing "death sweeps" over kids swimming close in.

I went home in the end.....too @#$%^ dangerous. I had 2 members of the public come up to me and ask if it was all as dangerous as it looked and observing that people didn't look like they knew what they were doing.


Not good news. There are many times during the year that this kind of thing happens, but crowded holiday and summer weekends should not be one of them. I'd suggest coming up with a voluntary proactive plan before the park does it first. If I worked for the park and witnessed some of what you saw I'd be concerned.

I think there should be no kiting at Alameda during summer weekends and holidays. The risk is high and it's a matter of time before the public gets hurt. If new kiters are interested in learning the sport, make the time to do it during the week. Take off work, do what you have to do to make the time. Learning kiting requires a commitment of time. Alameda beach is not the place for the weekend warriors to come out once a week and terrorize the crowds. No place is for that matter, except 100 yds. and more out into the water.
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Postby Guest » Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:03 am

FYI everything written here is read and monitored by the authorities that will decide where or when you can ride.

Be careful what you write and how you write it. Would be wise to keep it to the facts and keep you opinions to a minimum.

This forum will be used in court as evidence.
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Postby Guest » Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:07 am

Ollie get this thread off the internet.

FYI historically when one park in a local areas bans anything it sets a precedent for others.
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