The backroll

[tgautier]

Hi - so I am starting to think about trying a backroll.

I've been trying to do some load & pop - but I don't really think I've got it. For practice I try a load & pop to flip toeside on every transition/gybe, but usually I find the board gets stuck to the water (sometimes, with a lot of effort, I can get a few inches off the water) - I am trying to figure out what I need to do to get some pop. I figure I am doing it wrong when I do get a bit off the water because I feel like I am the one doing all the work not the kite.

Question about the backroll - do I need a good amount of load & pop to complete it? Or just good wind and pull in on the bar? I'm looking to do it hooked in at first.

Eventually I want to nail this trick - it looks so insanely fun : http://www.slowtrick.com/tricks/show/282/

Any recommendations for the handplant? Should I try a regular backroll first and get comfortable with that before trying the handplant? I see the best way to do the handplant is with a kiteloop at the top - I'm comfortable so far with a downloop transition so I don't think the kiteloop would be a huge progression - what do you all think? I've completed a few air transitions but I'm not too good at those yet - I don't seem to have the bring the kite down hard the other way step nailed yet.

[kitenaked]

Once you get the back roll...this should be of help on the pelican....

from Mike @ Killed the Wind...

Here’s a couple ideas that should help. For me – slo mo’ing a video (I take out just the handdrag trick) and reviewing it after a session are the most helpful. Much easier to follow the progression if you have a 10 second clip to review. You can get a video of Shawn doing it on the Kitebeach kookout films.

No one does that trick like Shawn - with the massive loop pull, starting so low and then swinging way high. But he didn’t always do it that way. I first saw him do it in 07 at the Pismo kiteexpo and I started to learn it from then. Back then I called it the ‘butt drag’ because he looked more like he was dragging his butt over the water than a hand. It was also less kiteloop, longer drag. That is how I learned to do it.

The key to the trick is the kite timing, the drag and spin are more natural. Progression is this:

Learn to float under your kite first (w/out a hand drag)
1.) start leaving the water when kite is at 11:30 – I park it there before I do
2.) Do a sharp carve up wind just before going off the water, you can jump a little, it keeps you in the air longer (shawn doesn’t jump though)
3.) Really move kite slowly through window, then when you are about to land, pull the loop
You can do the above without a backroll – it will teach the timing, the kite position and the long float
If you find that you are swinging way downwind really fast under the kite - you aren’t carving upwind enough – this is key

Once you have that, the backroll and handdrag are easy
1.) Just keep rotating backroll after the snap upwind
2.) Put your feet and board as high up vertically as you can, reach down for the water
3.) Keep the hand that is on the bar very close to the center (I do it with the line through my fingers)
4.) Pull the loop midway through the jump

The really cool move after this is the frontroll 540 handdrag from toeside – it is easier to do, but looks harder – I don’t have that on video well yet from the side (just from the kite)
If you want to see that trick in its epicness – do a search on Andy Hurdman Rainman video.

[kitenaked]

Understanding there is endless information on the internet...

This is what worked for me:

i first got the backroll figured out on a regular basis when the wind was steady and i was not too overpowered (July Sherman wind to be exact).

Basically riding to port (left) with steady board speed and the kite at parked at 1030 to 11:00. As you are cruising start edging up wind and bringing the kite toward 12. As kite is heading to 12 with good tension in lines, pull in on the bar almost like you are going to load up for a jump. as you feel the power of the kite start to pull.....look over your forward shoulder (turning your head and upper bodybody...if you hold this turning position and maintain the steady pressure on the bar, it should help you all the way around. do it in lighter wind or you little jump may be come much higher and you may over rotate or have some interesting wipeouts....

For practice...If you just ride along and edge with the kite moving from 11 to 12, you can also practice the loading and pull of the kite...do it first while you are going slow - but powered.

[baypirate]

Little confusing whether you're asking about basic backroll / backroll transitions etc., i.e. stuff that comes after learning to jump, or more advanced, say backroll-based stuff.

My own progression has been: jump transition, backrolls (carving-initiated, then w/ kite boost), backroll transition, grabs, jump kiteloop, backroll kiteloop. (we're talking all hooked in; I'm finding that just popping unhooked takes some relearning to kite first, whole different topic)

Key to learning a simple backroll is imho not doing anything w/ the kite. Move hands to center of bar, raise the kite up, carve hard upwind and look over front shoulder. If you find you crash your kite, try take your backhand off the bar after raising the kite.

Once you got that, a "true" backroll would require controlling the rotation speed and height, which basically means using the kite. A "high and slow" backroll is not a big deal, but still feels great to me and seems to be a foundation for a lot of more advanced "old school" stuff. Key skill once you're getting high will be resending the kite forward by pulling on your front hand to take you out of rotation and get lift for that kiss-landing.

Backroll transition is I think easier than one of the controlled, kite powered backrolls above, PROVIDED you can nail simple jump transitions. For latter, I found that thinking "lame jump, awesome landing" is the key. Start w/ a small jump (and slow speed), turn your body to the other side, twist board downwind and pull on your FORMER back hand - your NEW front hand HARD, sending the kite aggresively on the other side of window (probably close to the water). You got this when you plane away, no board stall, no kite stall. Of course, adding height and doing this from higher speed will require better timing and kite control etc., but I think you can learn backroll transitions before adding height in jump transition. BTW, I think jump transitions are great drill for kite control.

Back to... backroll transition - I think it's a most natural move (and that hand drag twist makes it even more so). Just take your FRONT hand off the bar completely, move your back hand to the center of the bar, initiate a SMALL backroll (little rotating impulse and height), LEAN BACK in your harness and HALFWAY through the rotation PULL HARD (on your only hand!) to send the kite aggressively forward (in the new direction). Pointing the board downing helps. The hand drag add-in just gives you something to do w/ that front hand you took off the bar, and an anchor to pivot around at that!

Adding the kiteloop (essentially a downloop) to power away this transition is neat but I would take it piecemeal (i.e. learn w/o a downloop first). But end of day, to downloop you just keep pulling on that one hand you have on the bar, however as with any kiteloop, pointing the board downwind is key.

Last thought on adding kiteloops. I for one find powered backroll-kiteloops non trivial. I can nail backroll kiteloops (hooked in, to be clear) a couple of feet off the water, but every time I add more height I receive SEVERE punishment. At any rate, I do think one should get comfortable w/ simple (jump) kiteloops first.

[baypirate]

Little confusing whether you're asking about basic backroll / backroll transitions etc., i.e. stuff that comes after learning to jump, or more advanced, say backroll-based stuff.

to get a visual, this is what I mean by the difference b/w the two:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=976-5nea ... FA97032E67

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3nRxbtzhys

And I personally think there are 1-2 years of kiting (some of it, in pain) b/w these two "backrolls"...

[tgautier]

Thanks everyone - great tips!!

[NCKite_Ryder]

Once you get the back roll...this should be of help on the pelican....

from Mike @ Killed the Wind...

Here’s a couple ideas that should help. For me – slo mo’ing a video (I take out just the handdrag trick) and reviewing it after a session are the most helpful. Much easier to follow the progression if you have a 10 second clip to review. You can get a video of Shawn doing it on the Kitebeach kookout films.

No one does that trick like Shawn - with the massive loop pull, starting so low and then swinging way high. But he didn’t always do it that way. I first saw him do it in 07 at the Pismo kiteexpo and I started to learn it from then. Back then I called it the ‘butt drag’ because he looked more like he was dragging his butt over the water than a hand. It was also less kiteloop, longer drag. That is how I learned to do it.

The key to the trick is the kite timing, the drag and spin are more natural. Progression is this:

Learn to float under your kite first (w/out a hand drag)
1.) start leaving the water when kite is at 11:30 – I park it there before I do
2.) Do a sharp carve up wind just before going off the water, you can jump a little, it keeps you in the air longer (shawn doesn’t jump though)
3.) Really move kite slowly through window, then when you are about to land, pull the loop
You can do the above without a backroll – it will teach the timing, the kite position and the long float
If you find that you are swinging way downwind really fast under the kite - you aren’t carving upwind enough – this is key

Once you have that, the backroll and handdrag are easy
1.) Just keep rotating backroll after the snap upwind
2.) Put your feet and board as high up vertically as you can, reach down for the water
3.) Keep the hand that is on the bar very close to the center (I do it with the line through my fingers)
4.) Pull the loop midway through the jump

The really cool move after this is the frontroll 540 handdrag from toeside – it is easier to do, but looks harder – I don’t have that on video well yet from the side (just from the kite)
If you want to see that trick in its epicness – do a search on Andy Hurdman Rainman video.

SHHHHH! These are the secrets to the best part of kiting!!

You actually explained it very well. I have learned how to do the fairy glide to kiteloop transition, just need to incorporate the backroll. Feel like I should of paid more attention during gymnastics class when I was younger..... once i get inverted and backwards I lose all sense of direction and consistently slam backwards on the water during the loop. Its getting close though.

Keep up the progression. The average Bay Area Kiter has improved immensely in the past 5 years.

[stomptricks]

Hey guys,

We've compiled a list of all the good Backroll tutorial video's over at Stomptricks.com

Find the definitive guide here: http://stomptricks.com/tricks/hooked-in-backroll/