Kite riding on snow vs. water

[michael]

The arguments of snowkiting being easier are simply not comparing apples to apples. Of course, if you compare riding a kiteboard in Alameda with a 14m kite vs. standing on skis with a 3m - then yes, snowkiting seems easier (and maybe that's why I bought it). It took me a while to realize that this is simply not apples to apples.

Compare standing on skis with a 3m vs. body dragging with a 5m. What is easier? What is safer?

By the way, "Being a good kiteboarder doesn`t mean you are going to be a good snowkiter" - what was that about ??? I was talking about beginners, not pros.

[Bulldog]

So Michael, I think the important question that Gabe was asking was "Did you pay for lessons?"

If not, you can't really complain about their sales pitch.

[michael]

"Did you pay for schools?" ... is it accidently worded this way? Not just "did you take a lesson?", but "did you PAY ?!!" As if what the school is teaching is not important, what important is the payment itself :shock:

No, we did not take lessons, if that's what was asked. I disagree with some techniques of water schools, so I was cautious and hesitant about trusting snow schools, too.

I was looking for opinions from those who had an experience learning on snow. What snowkiting schools are saying I already know, I was wondering what students have to say.

[whitecap]

I would guess learing how to kite at crissy on your own would be pretty sketchy....bad things could happen.... A lesson with Sandy at Rio would be different - apples and oranges, right?

Well, showing up at skyline and figuring you can teach a novice in the snow since you kite on water might be a bit different than having Kafka follow the novice on a snowmobile, no? It was clear from my experience up there this year that there is a big value added for a novice going with Jeff than trying crissy for the first outing...

Bob

[adamrod]

i think the lesson here is that with proper instruction, both snowkiting and water kiting are safe and (relatively) easy to learn. without proper instruction, they're both damn hard.

it does seem that an experienced water kiter would have a bit easier time moving to snow than a snowkiter moving to water however.

so, when dealing with novices, it seems that if they want to learn snowkiting, they should take a snowkite lesson, and if they want to learn kitesurfing, they should take a kitesurfing lesson. learning to snowkite isn't really a shortcut to learning how to kiteboard and vice versa.

when i used to teach, we had people learn on a trainer kite with a mountain board. it really didn't teach them much, but it made the land lesson a lot more fun than just flying a trainer around.

to be honest, i've seen some pretty terrible instruction from IKO and PASA certified schools, so i can understand where Michael is coming from, but having done a good deal of instruction, it can be pretty hard and frustrating, so I have a bit of compassion for when instruction doesn't go as well as it should.

friends ask me to teach them, but to be honest i'd rather kite and i'd rather not deal with all the grief and frustration.

I have to take issue with one point, and correct me if i'm wrong, but were you teaching your wife/girlfriend to kite? (i'd assume so from the quote "Seeing your significant other kite riding - priceless! " ). isn't that one of the cardinal sins of kiting? It's awesome if your SO learns to kite, just make sure you're not the one teaching him/her. I've seen that go wrong so many times, and heard more anecdotes from others...so, if true, it's possible that that contributed to the difficulty.

[michael]

Is there such a thing as learning at Crissy ? Does anybody give lessons there? Maybe taking lessons from Sandy at Rio make kiting at Crissy less sketchy, I had no idea...

"It was clear from my experience up there this year that there is a big value added for a novice going with Jeff than trying crissy for the first outing..."

No comment.

[Bulldog]

Okay, now I have to agree with Gabe. If you were trying to teach someone else (especially your sig. other) how to snowkite without ever having tried it yourself, you need to have your head examined. Adamrod is right on about this one, too.

Just because you can kite doesn't mean you can teach someone else to kite. And just because you can kite on water really doesn't mean that you can teach someone else to kite on snow.

[michael]

So is snowkiting indeed is the easiest and the safest way to learn kite riding for a beginner who only practiced with a trainer kite?

The answer is - depends. Specifically:
1) are you trying to teach your wife?
2) just because you can kite doesn't mean you can teach someone else to kite
3) learing how to kite at crissy on your own would be pretty sketchy and would be different with a lesson with Sandy at Rio
4) there is a big value added for a novice going with Jeff than trying crissy for the first outing
5) did you pay for lessons?

Let me rephrase the question - a beginner who only practiced with a trainer kite and moves to the next stage, will it be easier and safer for him standing on skis with kite (with Jeff), or learning body dragging (with Sandy at Rio)?

[Bulldog]

...It depends.

One thing fer sure, if you're jonesing to start learning right now, snow is your best bet, because Rio won't be ready for kite lessons until May at the earliest.

And if you're with a good teacher, you're probably safe either way. I wouldn't expect to be able to waterstart on your first try in the water if you learned to kite on snow, though. (Gabe -- is that a fair statement or what?)

[whitecap]

Let me rephrase the question - a beginner who only practiced with a trainer kite and moves to the next stage, will it be easier and safer for him standing on skis with kite (with Jeff), or learning body dragging (with Sandy at Rio)?

Now, that is a better question, and I agree with Paul's response. My point with crissy I thought was pretty clear - don't expect positive results putting a novice on a larger kite - either on skis without pro instruction - or in more difficult water kiting environments.

I would also take exception with the thought that teaching your SO is always a bad idea...I taught my wife how to windsurf and kite, and taught my two sons how to kite as well. All positive experiences, and a lot of fun. MG, Alex and I went up to skyline to try this snow stuff for the first time, and had a blast. Yes, it is a bit cold laying out your lines, but the addition of elevation as a dimension to go with upwind/downwind was pretty cool. We were getting around pretty well the first day, and airing it out and having fun by day two.

At the same time we were up there, a bud who is a very good kiter was up there with his new wife. He hooked her up with Jeff, and they also had a great time - and she had no previous kiting experince. Although he had all his own gear, he figured that the experience would be more positive with a pro setting up expectations and environment. Which is better - snow or water to start? Probably depends on the preference of the student - are they comfy flopping around in the water, or does that spook them? Are they ski/snowbard fans and like the mountains? Either way, things are good with the pros setting up the experience.

Bob