Anyone Flying Foils?

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Postby sflinux » Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:53 pm

Agreed, foils and arcs are a rare thing to be seen in the bay area.
I agree with what's been said here.
I've tried the Speed 10, 13, and 17 (most time on the 10/13). They need a really good lightwind board to get going in light winds, and for that reason shouldn't be labeled as light wind kites imo. I don't see any advantage of the Speeds to the sle/bows available now. But the Speed2 sounds like it will be a much better kite. But I think most bay area riders would prefer the Psycho3 (freestyler).
I still really like my big psycho2 (21M/ 26M) foils when the winds are under 10 knots. They are super stable, easy to water relaunch, and will fly in winds that most c-kites start falling out of the sky, and pull like a truck. I used to fly really big c-kites (20+M) and there is no going back for me.
I like flying arcs in winds that self landing could be a bit sketchy (20+ knots). I agree with Gideon, the 10M is the best of the lot. Historically arcs had range/depower competitive with the best 4 line c-kites, but 5 line depowerable c-kites like rrds are far superior. The "passive" suspension that 4 line arcs have, can now be obtained by an "active" 5 line depower bar like the type wave (or bow/sle). Arcs are fun for learning jumps as the float is really good, like sle/bow flat kites. Arcs are like having automatic transmission when it comes to gusts, 5 line depowerable and bows/sles are like having manual transmission. Both achieve a similar result, one does so with even higher performance imo.
I like using RRDs in the surf, as nothing I've used turns and handles as nice.
I still don't ride bow/sle kites, but for those out there considering arcs or foils, your better off sticking with the main stream kites out there when you want to be out there riding with everyone else. I'm an open minded person which is why I invested time and money with tinkering around with arcs and foils. There is indeed a reason why arcs and foils are only rarely seen around here... Arcs and foils each have their own unique features, but bows/sles have incorporated the "best" features of arcs and foils imo. But maybe there will be something special about the future generation of arcs and foils, I'll leave it to somebody else to figure that out. I'm spent.
-bric
Last edited by sflinux on Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:40 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Postby andyandmarlys » Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:56 pm

I am considering getting a foil for land and snowboarding. I am retiring my 12m mastair... it pulled like a truck in first gear light winds, but also flew like one..... I broke a brake line and to me it is not worth spending money on to replace.... However I can see foils on land and snow as having some durability advantages in holey winds... When the foil falls, it lands in a pile... when a inflatable falls, it can be hard.... and some areas that is a problem for bladders. (other areas not)

One thing I am finding in my search is that water foils are pretty expensive..... $2K for a Speed 17.... which admiditadly probably has great low end, but doesn't really fly speedy even compared to 20m+ tubes...
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Postby sflinux » Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:57 am

I prefer open cell kites for land/snow use. They don't stall as much as closed cell kites in the lulls, are easier in inflate in low winds, and are easier to self land in high winds.
I know you weren't too happy with that 10.5M blade. I recently picked one up and am installing a uds bridle on it, to give it some depower, better stall recovery, and a quicker turning rate.
As far as recommendations for land kites, to name a few would be the flexifoil blades or ozone frenzy. The frenzys are nice stable kites. For a blade, a 8.5M or even a 6.6M is all you need for land use. (Both of these turn a lot faster than a stock blade 10.5). For reference, on a landboard, I have a much easier time to get going on the 10.5M blade with handles than the speed 17.
The mastair has really good low end. Some of the old flysurfers can be found for pretty cheap. Some worth considering are the wac'd warrior, or the titan. Personally, I think the older flysurfer had better bottom end than the newer ones. The speed 17 can be used on land, but it is a slow turner. Honestly, I haven't seen much of a difference in bottom end between the Speed 13 and Speed 17. I can get going in the same winds on both, just the S17 has more pull. Which basically means I can jump sooner, but the bottom end is more similar than different. The S13 is all around more fun (more agile, better top end). But for land use, I'd put up an open cell kite before a flysurfer. The thing with the Speeds is their power doesn't turn on until they are up to cruising speed, so the power delivered to get up and planing between a S17 and S13 are very similar. And the power generated by a power stroke is very weak compared to a c-kite. It can be tough to get up to that cruising speed in chop and surf conditions. But once the Speeds are up to cruising speed (thanks to a fast board), the apparent wind running over the airfoil creates a lot of power. The speeds were designed as a racer, so they have a high aspect ratio. High cruising speed, and high aspect ratio, makes a good combo for jumps/hangtime.
Open cell kites can be flown in 5 mph winds. The flysurfers don't really get fun until about 8-9 mph (they're a bit stally in anything less than that). I don't put up arcs until the winds are over 10 mph for land use.
I met a local guy at Mt. Rose last winter who was mainly riding a Sonic 14. Bows/sles work great on snow. Foils are a viable alternative if you don't want to prematurely age your $1K bow/sle. In hindsight, I wouldn't spend a lot of money on a foil for land/snow use.
just my two cents,
bric
Last edited by sflinux on Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:17 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby windhorny » Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:34 am

Be cheaper to get a paraglider wing.
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Postby sflinux » Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:12 am

Where do you find inexpensive paraglider wings?

Interesting to note that Armin, the designer of the Speed and founder of flysurfer , has actually used the Speed 17 for paragliding. He is an experienced paraglider. The speed flew much faster than any of the other paragliders out there that day (ultrahigh performance). If memory serves his cruising speed was something wicked like 30 k!
Here's some pictures of it.
http://www.flysurfer.com/Gallery/v/phot ... ?g2_page=2
Last edited by sflinux on Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby windhorny » Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:36 am

I dont remember the site I looked at years ago when i was thinking of getting into the sport. somewhere on kinsley's site.


Alameda is off the chart, see ya@!
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