Teaching vs Mentoring

[More Waves Please]

I've been following the Alameda discussion mostly because it's like watching a train wreck. Never been to Alameda, and don't plan on trying it anytime soon. However, I do note that we're really talking about separate issues here.

There are a lot of good instructors around the Bay, and a ton of newbies are taking lessons. That's awesome. It provides a decent base for safety and beach rules. The question is, how many lessons are enough? Are we expecting beginners to take lessons until they're proficient, or just until they get the basics?

I don't think anyone is expecting a beginner to take 10 lessons before venturing out on their own. 2 - 3 lessons would be more than enough (and expensive!) for the average half-competent athlete. Where do they go from there? Friends and other helpful kiters, of course.

My personal opinions of Jan and his adventures at various spots around the Bay aside, it sounds like he was just trying to do what we all do - mentor a new kiter who likely has some basic skills down already. We all do it, and we've all screwed up. I know I had my share of sketchy launches in the early days.

Is there a "law" against mentoring? That sounds like the argument to make to the alleged authorities.

[charlie]

just not in front of the shack,
were we all set up, and luanch

[Greg]

Mentoring is AWESOME! All of us should be doing it, and many are!

But if your unable to set up and launch somewhat well, it that still mentoring or do you need more lessons? Even if that was cool, should it be happening in such a way as to endanger others? And to what level is a minor accident dismissed?? Do you have to Tomma-Hawk a bi-stander or is "a little string burn" across the back of the legs enough to draw some attention?
I think a minor set of tests should be proformed before students are unleashed upon the world...
L.M.G.

[dewey]

Mentoring is AWESOME! All of us should be doing it, and many are!

But if your unable to set up and launch somewhat well, it that still mentoring or do you need more lessons? Even if that was cool, should it be happening in such a way as to endanger others? And to what level is a minor accident dismissed?? Do you have to Tomma-Hawk a bi-stander or is "a little string burn" across the back of the legs enough to draw some attention?
I think a minor set of tests should be proformed before students are unleashed upon the world...
L.M.G.

I agree there should be a minimum standards before the students are sent out into the real world to solo.
I remember having this talk with Jeff. He had a student that really screwed up on the beach a few years back. During the lesson the student did everything right. When Jeff asked why he did what he did, he just said "I know, I don't know why I did that". I think it's like driving. People who can drive or are learning to drive just make bad decisions once in a while. Really it's a people thing.

[Pablito]

On a crowded day at the beach, there's alot of pressure on to get your lines tied right and let launched quick. Add kite-jonesing to that, and you get some pretty good room for error.

[Greg]

Paul, your totally right!
Practice practice practice,
L.M.G.

[JCoffey]

Letís make one thing very clear about that day at Alameda. I was NOT teaching in the boardsports area. We were launching. We didnít really want to launch in the boardsports area, but those are the local rules, and we were trying to abide. (BTW, there is no ordinance governing that, so you can bet we wonít ever be anywhere near the boardsports shack any more.)

Sandi has launched a kite many many times. I doubt if any beginner at Alameda who has had a lesson and is launching in the boarsports area has had as many assisted launches or as many solo launches as Sandi has had. And what is more, we even asked for an assist, just for good measure.

In the second to the last paragraph of this post I will tell you exactly what I think about lessons.

I have thought very many people to snowboard. Like it or not I have also taught and mentored quite a number of people to kite board, mostly non-commercially, but I have also thought commercially.

I am also quick to help out newbies. Tell them what I know, and correct a lot of the crap people get as hazing. Sometimes this puts me in the middle of it all, and it has evidently contributed to a bad rep. You know what, I donít care!

Anyone who is capable of reason and has a decent memory will remember that I was blamed for an accident that happened three years ago. It was a very serious case. I was berided and harangued on line for nearly two weeks until those involved posted and explained that I had nothing at all to do with the accident, Öexcept of course that while everyone else was yelling with disdain at the poor guy, I had actually jumped in and saved him. ìVillage idiotî is what I think they called me for that. Does anyone remember who started ñthat- post? Does anyone remember who he works for?

Was I ever a newbie? Yes I was, 6 years ago I was new when there were a bunch of old-timers from windsurfing and a few buggy riders et.al. Most of these people gave me advice that was not only questionable, but sometimes down right dangerous. Did I have my share of kitemares? You bet I did, and every one of them was a lesson. I watched plenty of people making the exact same mistakes, most of them with much more experience than I had at the time.

The problem was those who were making the same mistakes were receiving the same very bad advice. So you know what I did, I told everyone about those hard learned lessons so that they could learn from my mistakes and not have to make the same ones themselves. I spent some time getting to know the new people, acting as upwind shuttle, and telling people everything I knew. I donít think that made me very popular with those who would have rather new people just go away. You know what, I donít care!

Did I go over the rocks at 3rd? When I first started, I had very little knowledge of what I was doing. You couldnít get lessons. I was on a two line kite with no release. Stupid? Very! but the same people who are beriding me now thought that was exactly the setup I should be kiting on.

And you know what? Had people listened to me after that accident then, other accidents in that exact same spot might have been avoided. Did I ever once before now say ìI told you so?î

I spent the bulk of last summer in Okinawa surfing, writing music, scuba diving, kiteing and teaching kiteboarding.

Right before I arrived in Okinawa a student from one of the approved schools ran himself into a cement wall and died.

So I will tell you what I think.

What I think is that the teaching techniques being used by the schools move far FAR TOO FAST! You canít teach by a plan. Four hours isnít even enough time to teach just one of the many components I believe every kiter needs to know. You have to move at the studentís pace. And the friends I tend to teach take a lot more time than any school is going to provide. Most need very detailed and very technical instruction. Not the kind of information one tends to get from a pro that picked it up in a few weeks or days.

You may not like me, you may not agree with my opinions, and you may think that the friends I teach and mentor have no business kiteboarding, but until a law gets passed that says eccentric people canít kite, your going to have to just put up with it.

Kite Free!

Jan a.k.a Oklahoma!

[kitechick]

Seems there is "Helping", "Mentoring" and "Teaching"....different grades of the same thing when it comes to kiting...

in my opinion - Someone who kites since many years and went through many kitemares may somewhat be qualified to give good advice, help, mentor - and perhaps "teach" (definition for teaching is...giving a formal lesson or lessons).
Kitemares make you think things through from all angles and you know what to look for next time (if you have a bit brains). Kitemares make you safety-aware. So you know what to look for, what to avoid and what to focus on. Don't get me wrong - of course it takes much more than that. What I want to say is that experience certainly weighs significantly when asking whether someone is "qualified" to help, mentor or teach.

There always will be contradicting opinions by experienced kiters about what is right and what is wrong (like launching direction or where to launch etc.). I have an opinion too but will never force it onto anyone, maybe I quietly do something different for myself (on a crowded day I may launch upwind of the shack for example or towards the water on a gusty day) because I see the established way being too risk loaden in that moment.
Only when something is obviously wrong (way too big kite for the wind and skill level of someone or obviously crossed lines or other difficulties of a newbie) I will step in and help or advise.

I don't want to force my opinion on others because I respect everybody's way to do their thing. And also there is always the risk of liability looming - and my "good advice" may be later or in court prooved wrong.

Now - the court and liability issue is what makes the people whose livelihood depends on the kite instruction business nervous. In this case the concession holder and park naturally have an interest to keep things "safe" (whatever that means in detail).

One thing is sure: Since the ladies took over the shack the chaos of a busy day is an organized chaos. The zones are marked and whatever they spot is taken care of. That stresses everyone out, mostly them and sometimes there may be overreactions. Teh shack staff is on high alert on a busy day, really.
But - they are doing a very good job for keeping the kiting chaos organized. I know and can compare to the years before and - clearly - the whole situation looks much much more safe despite all the new faces. There are less dangerous incidents if any or risky situations (the only ones I see are sometimes by experienced kiters). Probably also because a lot of beginners take lessons in these days, ask questions and the equipment got much better.

So....everyobdy just chill, relax and respect each other. And...enjoy kiting!

[Greg]

EVERONE,
Just work with us, we are trying... WE can do it TOGATHER!

Finally, I also want to thank the gals form the Shack (and the others that help them) ,your making a difference, A POSITIVE difference, IMHO.
L.M.G.