Interesting thread on Bow Kites in general

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Postby Live2KITE » Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:36 pm

Pablito wrote:Reverse Relaunch is the key to fun snowkiting, that's why I was thinking Rapture. The Type Wave looks like it would be a bit of a project to move the 5th line to the trailing edge for RR.

Ollie, so I'll put you down for a "BAK/Windwing/RRD Snowkite Demo Day" when that container ship comes in?


Both the Type Wave and Type Wave2 kites can be sick for the snow.
We can make a new bridge for the trailing edge for the Reverse Relaunch easily thus converting to snow machines.

Here is why I think that the Type Wave and Wave 2 kites will really work:

- They use the Total Depower system which helps you have complete control on the power.
- They already have the trailing edge connectors for the TE bridles which work for Reverse RElaunch.
- They are build super strong for wave abuse and that will help tons for the snow.
- They are anywhere between $525 (for the 8m complete) to $700 (for the 15m complete) for the 2005 Type Wave with the Type Wave depowering system!!!! And that gets you the sickest freestyle / wave kite and snow kiting machine!

[url=http://www.live2kite.com/product_info.php?products_id=203&osCsid=943c574ce383870a07432bfb4907657f]
[/url]

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Postby OliverG » Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:30 pm

Ideally, with whatever you kites you may own, it's a win-win situation if you can use your kiteboarding kites for all your snow riding and avoid having to buy dedicated foils for snow. The Type Wave provides as much depower as anything else out there, so if it can be rigged for RR, this would look to be a good candidate for snow use also. I can testify to their strength as myself and a Type Wave 10, after crashing it, went through two sets of double overhead at OB with no harm done to either of us.

We'll make sure the Type Wave's are fully set up for RR for the BAK/WW/RRD Snow Demo, with the date TBA.
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Postby Pablito » Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:06 am

Alright!

I'd love to be able to use the same kites on water and snow. I've already got my 14 Rage changed over to the Jumpstart for winter.
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Postby exsailor » Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:15 am

I got a chance to play around with my first-gen raptures on the snow over the thanksgiving holiday, and can definitely give a positive recommendation. Wind was REALLY gusty (5-35mph) creating some challenging conditions, but I never felt out of control and reverse relaunch was easy enough to do if I crashed the kite.

Only downside was that self-launching wasn't too simple in the gusty wind, though in steadier wind it shouldn't be a big problem. Oh, and given the turkey dinner and snow gear, I think I bruised my ribs trying to squeeze into my normal harness. :?
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Postby elli » Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:46 pm

I had similar gusts last year in Tahoe, and it was very problematic. I did not feel out of control at any point, but I also did not have much fun doing one minute sessions and then relaunch.

I think the wind actually changed direction 180 on the kite. It fell upwind from me a few times. Its almost impossible to get the small flysurfer of the sky unless you fly it directly into the ground, but in Tahoe it went down like all the other kites around.

Having said that, when the wind hits 25 you can go upwind like a rocket for a few seconds. Short burst of happiness.

I know you guys are all excited about snow kiting, but if the conditions in Tahoe are always like that it may not be worth it. We got less than half an hour riding time for a whole day in the snow, and the gusts hit 25-30 (measured on wind meter). I remember seeing a video from last year (Ozone event in Grass Lake, I think) in which the kites kept falling out of the sky. Back then I thought its people using the safety to kill the kite or something like that, but it actually looks more like gusts.

it's a win-win situation if you can use your kiteboarding kites for all your snow riding and avoid having to buy dedicated foils for snow.
You know what I would say, get the foils for all conditions and avoid the pump. :):):)

Ollie, do you think you could use the Rap2 9 in the conditions that you had to use the 7 in Costa Rica? I may go to Costa Rica and I am not really prepared in terms high wind kite. After a season in Alameda I am more into the huge board thing than the small kite thing :)
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Postby OliverG » Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:34 pm

The 7m kite I flew last January was a Yarga, a traditional C kite with range that is nothing to write home about, just your average c-kite range, unlike the Type Wave and others that are c kits but able to provide a ton of depower. I think it's safe to say the 9m Rap2 would have been able to take it and probably felt safer too....

On the WW forum, a rider by the name of Scott Metzger reported these ranges for the quiver of 3 Rap1's he bought, and you can expect the same or better with the Rap2's:

Rapture
9m 16mph to ??
12m 13mph to 32mph
15m 11mph to 26mph
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Postby dewey » Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:11 pm

I'm hoping the 12m will get me going in at least 15mph.
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Postby Windwing R+D » Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:05 pm

dewey wrote:I'm hoping the 12m will get me going in at least 15mph.
Dewey:
I've been watching this thread from China with interest. One of the goals of the Rap II design was improved low end and jumping. From the reports I have seen and during our testing, we succeeded. JB was often going upwind in Stevenson on his directional in iKiteboarding.com windsensor-measured 10 on the Rap II 12 protos but, as many know, he is an efficient rider. I am hearing reports the new 16.5 is proving to be a large foil competitor for sub 10 riding but again, results may vary. There are lots of so-called 'flat' or 'bow' kites out there and an even larger number of superlative claims. Also, anyone who has seen a Rap II knows for sure it is by far the flattest which may not necessarily suit everyone's need. As more are shipped and reports made, we are finding that we have been able to effectively harness the benefits of projected area and in my experience, they are more elusive than one would suppose just from geometry alone. Some riders derive the benefit immediately, others need to develop more skill. I'm not sure this helps but that is my take on it.
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Postby charlie » Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:20 am

i like 14mph on my old 12m rapture to start with
we rode that new 12m rapture2 in less wind then that at the berkely demo with will,
i found it very interesting that both the 16.5m and the 12m rapture2 were out together in very low winds, the 16.5 turned like my old 12m rapture witch was fast for 16.5m kite!

bill will ya hurry up and make mine, ill have no worries putting it on the snow!
or my old 12mrapture for that matter,
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