Rapture vs Rage 12

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Postby OliverG » Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:20 am

An additional note to be clear - in fixed line mode, your rear pigtail has one knot and is short. The front is in the longer one (5-6 in.) and has 3 knots.
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Postby Bullroarer Took » Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:24 am

I'm using an '04 bar which has no knots near the bar, so when you say you are "bringing them in one or two knots" how much is this in inches? From what I'm reading you have ZERO slack in the back lines when the kite is at full depower overhead. Is that correct?

I'm going to try to figure out a way to meet either or both of you so you can check my setup. I usually sail 3rd, but can get to Alameda (or Rio if need be).
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Postby dewey » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:17 pm

One of my leader lines streched so I couldn't make the adjustment at the bar.
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Postby Bullroarer Took » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:28 pm

Between your help and JohnB's at WW it's clear that I have been sailing with back lines that are way too long. In fact, acc. to the numbers posted by John my back lines have been 7.5" too long. No wonder I thought that it the Outrage took a lot of power to get going. I'm going to try shortening a few inches at a time to see what happens.
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Postby OliverG » Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:46 pm

Bullroarer Took wrote:Between your help and JohnB's at WW it's clear that I have been sailing with back lines that are way too long. In fact, acc. to the numbers posted by John my back lines have been 7.5" too long. No wonder I thought that it the Outrage took a lot of power to get going. I'm going to try shortening a few inches at a time to see what happens.


Wow, no wonder you are dismayed at what's been going on.

Here's the deal - regardless of whether you are using bridles or fixed line, you should have equal line lengths under the following conditions (you can test this by hooking your lines up to a solid object you can pull on (truck, pole, bumper, etc.):

1. Sheeting line adjustment all the way out.

2. Bar pulled all the way or just about all the way in.

Then you should have equal line lengths. Once you have this, you can dial it in further with your pigtail attachments on the kites.

If I see you I'll be glad to help.

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Postby Bullroarer Took » Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:02 am

That would mean that with the sheeting lines all the way out and the bar all the way out, there should be slack in the back lines... correct? If so, then I'm pretty close.

Regardless, I would like to hook up so you can take a look at it. When I can free myself I'll PM you for your schedule.

Thanks.
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short back lines

Postby sflinux » Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:11 am

Call me crazy but I like to have my rear(stearing) lines snugger than my front lines by about 2" for my lei kites. For lulls, this allows me to pull in and actually have the kite back fly into the power zone. Granted most of the time, I ride sheeted out these 2 inches, but it is nice to have the option to pull in an have the ability to back fly the kite. I also really like having long chicken loops on my bars. I would gues mine is something like 14". And I have a lot of sheeting for my sheeting system. This gives my kites a lot of range. It is pretty similar to the S.A.F.E. compatible bars that ww is selling though their bars have 16 - 20" of sheeting which is even better. But I can see this not being an option or awkward for shorter people (I'm 6'2").
But ollie is right a traditionally tuned kitebar has all lines the same length when the sheeting is let all the way out (meaning sheeting system is at it's longest) and the chicken loop is all the way firmly against the bar (when all lines are tied you can pull the bar all the way to the chicken loop). That way when you pull on the bar (with the lines tied to an object) all 4/5 lines have identical slack (except when a line has a stopper ball, it makes that line heavier),
-bric
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Postby Bullroarer Took » Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:56 am

Then I haven't been that far off at all. My rear lines were 7.5" longer when the bar is all the way out and since I have about 10" of travel in my C-loop that would be 2.5" of over-sheet when all the way in. (And yes, when all the way in, the kite does reverse fly.)
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Postby OliverG » Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:40 pm

Bullroarer Took wrote:That would mean that with the sheeting lines all the way out and the bar all the way out, there should be slack in the back lines... correct? If so, then I'm pretty close.

Regardless, I would like to hook up so you can take a look at it. When I can free myself I'll PM you for your schedule.

Thanks.


Correct! Sheeting line in, bar out = slack in rear lines.
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Postby Pablito(guest) » Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:47 pm

So,
If the kite lines are tuned correctly as described in all these posts, as mine are, what makes the kite oversheet when you pull the bar all the way in (powered up). My Liquid Force 10M does this.

Would this be something you adjust at the pigtails? It sounds like you like your kite this way, Ollie? I assume if your kite is fully powered when your bar is out 2 inches, that would mean that if you pull it all the way in, it will oversheet?

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