What size kite for Alameda?

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panzerfaust
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Post by panzerfaust » Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:45 pm

I think that anything bigger than an 18 is "too much" kite and if you have to go bigger than that then I think I'd rather not go. However, with a 17m Rage and a Glide I am almost thinking that I could go windless :).

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Post by windhorny » Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:24 am

I know this will get bad replies but I have not brought another kite to the beach since I bought my 12 xbow. It handles everything from the low days to occasional gusts of 30 mph. I have 2 boards a 132 and a home made Glide-the "glid." I can use my glid in anyhting that will keep the kite in the air. But I am also really good at riding light wind and this doesnt come easily to some people at first. But to answer your question all my other kites stay in the closet since I bought my new xbow. But wait til slinghot comes out with theirs as they always make better kites than Cabrinha and it will have the one pump-bastards!

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Post by pipedragon » Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:53 am

Here is my 2 cents since I have a 25m monster. I like the 25 in light stuff because I live in Alameda so on my way home from work I can sneak in those extra sessions. I also like to ride a 16 with a big board but I am heavier. If you are a medium size weight like 150 I would get a 14 for Alameda dn two boards. You should be good most all of the time. Or go for the X-bow. It is pretty amazing that windhorny rides that kite as much as he does. Yesterday it was blowing hard and I was almost overpowered on my 12 and he was on his 12 xbow and he is about half my weight.

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Post by D. » Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:00 am

This is my first season kiting, I weigh 150lbs. and have ridden about fifty days at Alameda. I ride an old 15M slingshot fuel almost exclusively. I have two boards, including a flat, wide light wind board for those frequent 10 mph days.

You might want to consider how the kite relaunches in light wind. I've heard, for example, that the cabrihna recon and windwing systems need moderate wind to relaunch well. I'm happy with the slingshot oneline 5-line system for relaunching in light wind.

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Post by Guest » Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:08 am

No doubt about it, the xbow type kites are great in terms of range. I was crusing way upwind of the xbows on my flysurfer. Then the winds picked up and I decided I better land my kite. Since the winds picked up, the xbows started going upwind well. So yeah, if an xbow will fly, you can ride. But when an xbow won't fly, there's a good chance you can still ride on a flysurfer. But it is a dilemma, would you rather have extended range, or extended bottom end. For me, I am loving the bottom end.
I know Charlie has been doing well on his ww 12M rapture with the extended range cc bar. Me I can go out in 13 mph on my 11M fuel and my directional board. If I had to have a 1 kite quiver, it would be my fuel for winds 13 - 30 mph.
I don't have fun on my big kites if the winds are less than 9 mph, it's just too much work, a downwinder, and not much fun. I haven't noticed much of a difference between a 25M and a 21M. The rider and board can make all the difference.
Now that I have a flysurfer, my definition of light winds is 5 mph, instead of my old lei definition of 9 mph. There doesn't have to be white caps for me to be powered up and riding on my big flysurfer (7 mph is enough to go upwind).
I'm currently making a 12M Nasa Para Wing, with the hope of doing some ultralight wind kitesurfing/kiteboarding. These kites will continue to fly in 2 mph winds. The 25M is near overpowered in 2 mph winds. And the 33M is lofting in less than that. They are single skin, bladderless, and bridled so weigh next to nothing and pack down to fit in your back pocket, well almost.
-bric

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Post by Pablito » Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:18 pm

Hey FS guys,
Anyone ever ridden a Voodoo? I just got one used (10M)for snowkiting this winter. It's supposed to be their freestyle kite. I like my 10M LEI alot for water, but if the Voodoo blows me away this winter, maybe I'll try it on the water next year.

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Post by Guest » Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:14 pm

Hey Pablito,
I've only flown my fs maybe 7 times (4 statically land, 3 on the water).
And I can say that static versus dynamic flying is a night and day difference.
Like all foils (fs, arcs) these kites really come alive with some apparent wind which you generate with board speed.
It took me a day on the water to undertand how these kites like to be flown, so now I can keep these kites up in as little as 5 mph winds.
Here are some tips from GregWalshau:
"A few tricks for handling a stalling foil, or any kite for that
matter:
1. If the kite has a little movement and height, as the kite stalls
and starts to fall backwards, grab a brake leader and give it a yank
to roll the kite over so that it dives, then steer it straight
through the middle of the window and upwards as it passes through the
middle. You want to have the bar out as it dives to get maximum air
speed. A pump on the bar is often enought to get you up and riding
then a series of very small sines will let you get airspeed to ride
off.
2. If the kite has already stalled at the edge of the window then
stall it a little more so that it drops backwards towards the middle
of the window. There is more likely to be enough wind there to keep
the kite flying. If there is a little breeze combine that with
yanking a brake line to roll the kite over.
3. If the kite is stalled in the middle of the window and is
dropping push the bar out and possibly reach over and grab the front
lines and give them some pressure to speed the kite up and let it
rise. You will need to be ready to steer the kite as it rises.
If you combine all three you can lie on your back with your board on
your feet and do a series of stall swoops and ride out just about any
lull."
I've only flown the psycho2, and a big one at that, so I don't know about the voodoo. But the psycho2 is relatively high aspect for a foil, and IMO kind of flies like a low aspect lei. Being that your voodoo is smaller but lower aspect, you may experience the same impression. And being that it has more of a low aspect ratio feeling, I compare it to more wakestyle riding. With mid-high aspect tubes, they are fast and responsive and all around fun for freestyle riding, and you can't go wrong with a tube.
I do like the fs for low winds and big jumps. The fs are more technical (though easy to fly) in flying with subtle inputs to the kite. I find I work my board a lot more with my flysurfer, so my legs get more tired with that kite than others I've flown.
I would experiment with the different settings of your voodoo, because they dramatically affect how the kite flies and feels. I prefer full wac+ and full tip brake, and minus C8 line as flysurfer recommends for my model and size. Going to wac- gives it more of a traction (trainer) kite feel so is not good for going upwind. The tip brake makes for faster turning on it's axis.
I know Elli is gone on vacation. I think he has a warrior and xtc. He likes the warrior.
-bric
p.s. Land these kites like a normal lei: bring them to the edge of the window, then pull on your leash to get the tips to collapse (like a recon) and the kite should sink down and maybe drift downwind. When really powered up, the kite will still have some pull. So like an lei, you need to pull on one of your stearing lines, the spanwise length of the kite, to get the kite to flag out and be fully depowered. Rumor has it, fs is working on a new bar so this process is easier.

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Post by Pablito » Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:48 pm

Thanks for the info. Somehow, though, I don't think your post is going to get a bunch of LEI riders running out to buy foils. :wink:

I flew my 2M trainer yesterday for a little while -- I hadn't touched it in a year -- to remind myself how a foil flies. Then I went back and read the Voodoo user manual and it made alot more sense.

By this time last year, it had already started to snow in the Sierra.. I may have to wait a while to try it out on skis.

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Post by Guest » Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:02 pm

Pablito,
If people were going to run out and buy foils, statistically, it would have happened by now.
I ride arcs, leis, and now a flysurfer. After spending time on all the different types of designs, I'm not surprised that tubes are the most popular.
There are a number of possible reasons why: people buy what they see on the water, people buy what they use in lessons, leis are cheap in the states, many leis are designed in the states, probably easier for local shops to sell native brands, etc.
That being said, I am sold on flysurfers for low end. After buying my big flysurfer, I don't have a desire to blow up a big tube. Flysurfers are easier to keep in the sky. They are easier to launch in light winds too. When the conditions get light, I'd much rather be on a big flysurfer. I definately see them as filling the light wind niche. Problem is most kites that do this, cost $$$. Big kites mean lots of fabric. Flysurfers and arcs use high quality fabric which would cost a home kite builder $10/yd versus the $4/yd that leis use. So I don't see the price of these types of kites coming down much. But it does make finding a used one a bargain when it comes to materials and time to build one yourself.
I have yet to see the new fs speed in person, but have read extremely positive reviews by those that have tried one. Perhaps once they are tested in the bay area, interest in foils will grow.
-bric
p.s. you may want to fly your voodoo on a mtn board or buggy at ob, tis the season.

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Post by Pablito » Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:30 pm

The mountain board is my next purchase. How light does it have to be blowing to get on it with a 10M kite? I was thinking I'd be using my trainer...

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