Lose The Struts

[Aloha]

Anyone experiment yet with strut removal on any old kites? I am thinking about giving it a go with one of my old religions. The LE is not a drastically different shape than BRM Cloud / Naish Trip etc.

Anyone give this a go yet? Ray maybe have any input here? I guess my first experiment should be the old "struts not inflated" flight test at OB.

Anyone come across this topic on any forums they could maybe link?

[reyrivera]

Yeah, check out the strutless bow kite discussion

https://www.bayareakiteboarding.com/for ... =1&t=12235

I just add all my strutless experiments there to keep everything in one place.

Basically, all kites can fly strutless, some better than others:

1) Cabrhina Switchblade - so far, smaller kites, 10m or less are not viable. A couple of days ago when I tried the switchblade in alameda at 15 to 20 mph, this kite exploded, the shape distorted really bad when wind hit about 25 mph. Switchblades only viable for 12 meter or bigger and useable only at really low winds - 10 to 15 mph, anything higher than that, the kite will lose its shape.

2) 12 meter Obsession - So far really solid kite for strutless. Tried it on winds up to 15 mph. At 15 mph, I was overpowered and had to land the kite. Of course, I'm light weight at the moment at 165 lbs. Generally, the kite is decent between 8 to 15 mph.
Had to shorten the bridle through experimentation to keep the kite from overflying the wind window.

3) Currently on the chopping block, still working on it - 9 meter North Rhino. Will post once I do get some free time to actually finish this thing.

Tips:
I do fly the kites with the struts deflated as you suggested before cutting them. Preferably fly them at their normal wind range. Kite will fly but not as good because the struts will flap all over the place. Look for leading edge distortion/folding. If the leading edge do not fold or distort on a power stroke, then its a candidate.

When you cut the struts, leave some dacron there that you can use as soft batten across the canopy. Tuck them in cleanly and sew the extra dacron on the canopy. You need this to keep the kite from fluttering.

Hope this helps.

Rey

[Aloha]

I've been riding Alameda in "wait is the wind actually even blowing?" conditions on the 18M / foil.. I'm wondering if I try converting the 16m Addiction (2011 Orange/Black Year) to strutless it would have actually more low end than the newer 18M?

Now we just have to get you on a foil Rey - strutless kite + strapless foil ... so pure...

...So ... Pure.

[victor]

brm kites have very short bridles and quite a few (8?) attachment points on each side.

that is probably the key to keeping the le shape.

[reyrivera]

For the obsession, I just changed the tow points so the kite do not overfly. Generally, you will need lots of attachment to dissipate the load across the leading edge to avoid kite going out of shape. I'm guessing for the BRM the designers used short bridles so the kite is flyable just in case it inverts, less issue with bridle tangles when it crashes in the water.

[reyrivera]

Here's a guy who convert his old airush II 12 m, notice the profile, about 45 degree tip angle, ideal when the kite hits the water, you have a few seconds for a possible relaunch.

http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2385687

[cleepa]

brm kites have very short bridles and quite a few (8?) attachment points on each side.

that is probably the key to keeping the le shape.

Only true of the C2 Cloud. The C1 Cloud has a thicker leading edge and a pretty standard 3 point attached bridle.

[cleepa]

Anyone experiment yet with strut removal on any old kites? I am thinking about giving it a go with one of my old religions. The LE is not a drastically different shape than BRM Cloud / Naish Trip etc.

Anyone give this a go yet? Ray maybe have any input here? I guess my first experiment should be the old "struts not inflated" flight test at OB.

Anyone come across this topic on any forums they could maybe link?

I have only heard stories of people doing so. Apparently the WH Rabbits fly well that way. A couple of people have told me that Lou Wainman would often not bother inflating the struts, and even cut them off.

[victor]

brm kites have very short bridles and quite a few (8?) attachment points on each side.

that is probably the key to keeping the le shape.

Only true of the C2 Cloud. The C1 Cloud has a thicker leading edge and a pretty standard 3 point attached bridle.

hmmm. maybe there's a reason the c2 replaced the c1. could it be the c2's le maintains its shape better in gusts?

[cleepa]

brm kites have very short bridles and quite a few (8?) attachment points on each side.

that is probably the key to keeping the le shape.

Only true of the C2 Cloud. The C1 Cloud has a thicker leading edge and a pretty standard 3 point attached bridle.

hmmm. maybe there's a reason the c2 replaced the c1. could it be the c2's le maintains its shape better in gusts?

With the Cloud C1, Greg at BRM wanted to prove that a strutless kite could outperform a strutted kite for a given riding style. I'm a totally stoked owner of a full C1 quiver and will happily babble on about how well I think he has succeeded in that goal given half a chance. I haven't yet flown a C2, but from what I understand from Greg, the goal with the C2 was to further fine tune the Cloud. He wanted to shave off more weight because he found that had a huge impact on performance. That was done by using lighter, stronger material for the canopy and reducing the diameter of the leading edge. Reducing the diameter of the leading edge meant that it needed a bridle that provides more support. I've compared the weight of the 6m C1 to the weight of the 7m C2 - the C2 felt a lot lighter. The other design goal for the C2 was better top end and better handling of gusts. He did that by having more of the power of the kite go through the front lines. That to me seems amazing - I find that the C1 already has very low bar pressure. I'll eventually switch to the C2, but after a year and a half I'm still so stoked on the C1 that I haven't been able to tear myself away from them :-D. I find it hard to imagine a better kite than the 6m C1. That kite is out of this world amazing. I spend more time on my 6m than on my 8m, which at 180lbs is pretty rad. But people tell me the C2 is better... Anyway, I'll stop babbling now ;-)