North vs Airush bar, any opinions?

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Re:

Postby skinnydoc » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:46 pm

jwest21 wrote:I'm curious too what difficulty you're having with the F-one bar during self-rescue. I'll be honest that I haven't had to self rescue on my Bandits… yet. Are you riding an F-one kite because they flag to two lines on all the bandits as far as I understand, though I'm not sure about the volt. Flagging to two lines with a kite designed for one probably isn't very safe, and even in light winds may be very difficult to wrap up.



sorry Jwest I'm not sure what you mean '"flag on two lines" etc... can you enlighten?

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Re: North vs Airush bar, any opinions?

Postby SFPete » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:12 pm

Doesn't sound like it has anything to do with the bar.
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Re: North vs Airush bar, any opinions?

Postby skinnydoc » Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:24 pm

yeah... I'm starting to agree.

Anyone with suggestions for tuning tips? Maybe if I lengthen the back lines and shorten the front, when I let go of the chicken loop it would be more depowered?

thanks.

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North vs Airush bar, any opinions?

Postby robert-g » Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:28 pm

Start flying RRD's, you won't have this problem. :)
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Re: Re:

Postby jwest21 » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:32 pm

Hi Ben,

I don't think tuning is your issue here. No tuning, even in the absoute wrong direction for proper performance, should impede your kite from correctly being flagged out upon releasing your safety.

When any modern kite is released to flag out on a safety leash, they will either remain tensioned on only one of the center power lines, or on both equally. The steering lines will always be completely without tension. In the case of your airlite bar and bandit, the center lines connect at a swivel and share the single line that leads down and through the center of the bar, making it of the type that releases to both center lines equally. The pulleys on the bridal should allow the kite to fully depower instantly if you've let the bar run all the way to the yellow stopper. This should put the kite in a position where leading edge is closest to you in the water at the center, trailing edge is also in the water furthest from you and the wing tips are pointed toward the sky- think position you would walk your kite around in; in fact, if it's pulling more than what carrying a kite around does, something isn't right.
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setting up a North bar...

Postby skinnydoc » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:28 am

(robert-g... thanks for taking me out yesterday! I'll get this kite issue figured soon. Of course I can just borrow your kite to enjoy RRD "; ) )

Thanks for the help Jwest. I hear what you are saying, but still when it comes down LE first it pulls hard on the water and I have to struggle to get it into the Taco position you describe, then I'm fine.

I picked up a 2011 North bar 2d ago. I realize it won't solve this problem, but I like the safety release much better, less scary than finding that little loop. When comparing with my F-One lines fixed to a post, I see the F-One has longer front lines. So basically I just shortened my back lines on the North bar so the bar-to-chicken-loop length length matched the F-One bar. Sound good? (Its as you predicted Robert)

Comments appreciated.

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Postby jwest21 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:23 am

There's a discussion here about the problem you're facing.

http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... 5&p=683871

Seems that your issue may be that the yellow stopper bar is positioned for a kite of a smaller size than you're flying. The knot that holds the stopper in place can be moved closer to the swivel, allowing the bar to move further away and steering lines to lose all tension.

As for line lengths. My understanding is that both north and f-one use an equal line length setup, so your four lines should be the same length when the bar is pulled all the way to the chicken loop and trim is let out to full power. A good couple sessions will stretch your center lines a bit since they carry most of the power, which is probably the unequal lengths you're seeing. The airlite bar has knots above the trim cleat and hidden under the bar floats to adjust the lines back to equal length from time to time.

My understanding is that you shorten your steering and/or lengthen the center lines a knot at a time until the point where full power will start to cause the wing tips to curl in and the kite to fly backwards, then go back one knot and you're all set. Some riders even prefer to be able to get a little backflying (over-sheeting) in there but seems like an advanced riding technique.
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Re: North vs Airush bar, any opinions?

Postby skinnydoc » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:13 am

thanks jwest. That forum thread you posted is spot on. Looks like people work through the issues.

I already adjusted my North bar to match my Fone bar, maybe I should adjust it back and give it a shot?

I blew up my kite and put it on my back lawn just now (home with a sick kid today ::) )... are the knots supposed to come to the same level when you stretch out the back and front lines on the kite? I'm not sure how to lay out the lines, but in any case it looks like the front lines (on the kite) are consistently shorter than the back lines, which would fit with the setup of the bar I have (longer front lines on the bar). I put in a message to boardsports, the vendor to ask about it.

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Re: North vs Airush bar, any opinions?

Postby le noun » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:21 am

Mesure your line length by putting them together, not on the kite.
You can put a nail on a tree or something on the ground and just hook them all on it.
Then do what jwest said, trim powered all the way, then adjust the back lines with the knots hidden under the sleeves until your bar is all the way to the chicken loop.

As far as the safety system goes, like other said, every brand can have its little flaws.
5 lines systems can wrap around the kite, 1 line system can be problematic if you are doing a self rescue because one of your line broke, but what if the line that broke is the line that you're supposed to flag the kite with?
I personally don't have any problem with it the F-One system, BUT in the situation you're referring to, you just have to work a little your way around it.

If the kite ends up on the position you described after pulling your QR and the bar is all the way to the yellow stopper ball, just grab your safety leash (now the only thing still connecting you to the kite), start pulling on it and going back to your bar (just a few feet, don't need to go all the way to the bar) then let it go. I usually prefere doing that rather than swimming toward the kite (I know, I'm too lazy to swim). Usually, just by letting those few feet of line go will flip the kite on its back.
Unless of course you are in waist deep water and standing up in which case you are "anchoring" yourself. In that case just walk towards the kite.

As far as the QR itself, am I the only one to think that velcro is AWESOME because it's "sandfree" and doesn't need maintenance???

Let me know how it goes. :P
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Re: North vs Airush bar, any opinions?

Postby skinnydoc » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:39 am

I might end up agreeing with you on the velcro issue, after I use the North bar for a while.

According to boardsports the lines should be equal in length, so maybe that is part of the issue I've been having with my front lines stretched out (3in!). I'll put the North bar back to equal lengths and go do some test flying.

Thanks

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